On this episode of the “VinePair Podcast,” hosts Adam Teeter, Joanna Sciarrino, and Zach Geballe discuss the pros and cons of glass-pours at a restaurant. On one hand, by-the-glass wine lists can help customers discover new varietals, wineries, and producers without having to commit to an entire bottle. However, due to recent price creeps and competition from cocktails, glass-pours may be losing relevance. Tune in to learn more.

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Adam Teeter: From VinePair’s New York City headquarters, I’m Adam Teeter.

Joanna Sciarrino: And I’m Joanna Sciarrino.

Zach Geballe: In Seattle, Washington, I’m Zach Geballe.

A: And this is the “VinePair Podcast.” So guys, what’s going on? How’s March going?

Z: This actually comes out, I believe, on the last day of February.

A: I know, it’s weird, right? We talked about this last week. It’s weird. It’s the 28th, but it feels like it’s March 1st. I don’t get it, it’s weird. I want February in my rearview.

Z: I think we can all agree on that.

J: Yes, I agree.

A: Get the f*ck out of here, February. Zach, what have you been up to lately. What are you drinking?

Z: I’ve had a few really interesting things. I had some of the Lovely Folks at Fast Penny Spirits, which is a distillery here in Seattle. They sent me some of their Amaricano. So it’s two different amari that they make. One is a more conventional-style amaro that I think has a similar taste profile to something like Amaro Montenegro. It’s not overly sweet, but not super bitter. It’s definitely not a northern Italian style, heavy on the bitter herbs and mint and stuff. It’s a little sweeter, but not overly so. They also make a Bianca, which is a much lighter style. I don’t exactly know that there’s a great amaro analogy. It tastes more like Strega or something or like yellow chartreuse. It’s a little more herbal.

J: It’s like a hot yellow.

A: Cool, OK.

Z: So I tried those on their own and then I’ve been making a few cocktails with them. One that I enjoyed is arguably a riff on a Vieux Carre. But it’s mostly an equal-parts cocktail that involves rye, Cognac, this Bianca Amaro, and also Cocchi Americano Bianco. And it’s really good; I enjoyed it. It was fun to make and play around with it a little bit. I’ve also been drinking some wine. I drank some Barbera from Ca’ di Pian up in d’Asti, which is a wine I really enjoy. And it has a rhinoceros on the label, so I can’t go wrong. How about you, Joanna?

J: I’ve had a lot of mediocre beverages this past week. But one thing that did stand out was a rye from Burnside, which is in Portland, Ore. This was a bottle that I had brought home from the office. It was one that we really enjoyed. So I had some of that this past weekend. It was really nice. It’s Oregon oaked rye, so it has a very interesting finish and really nice dried spices and there’s stone fruit in there, too. So that was really good. How about you, Adam?

A: The most memorable glass of wine I had this last week — because I think I had a cocktail or two — was an Etna Bianco from Benanti. It was really, really good and just super delicious. I enjoyed it very much. That was, by far, the most memorable thing I drank this week. Where did I have it, Keith? I had it at Union Square Cafe, and my friend Andrea Morris, who’s the wine director there, poured it for me. Thanks, Andrea, it was really delicious. Those wines are so amazing. I kind of had a mediocre week, besides that, as well. Maybe you’re with friends or something and it’s more about socializing. The stuff wasn’t that memorable, right? I had a cocktail here or there, but that’s about it. We went to a dinner party and there was a bottle of red wine on the table. I think it was Italian. I think it might have been Chianti, but I don’t remember the producer or anything like that. Those times happen.

Z: It’s important to be OK with that. Not every drink you have has to be this all-consuming experience. It can just be a thing you’re enjoying with friends.

A: Speaking of wine and glass-pours, like I just had, this week I want to discuss all about discovery. This came out of our most recent discussion around millennials and wine and things like that. Zach, you sort of teased it. There was too much to talk about in that episode as side conversations. This is one of those. What we want to do is explore two things in this episode. Topic one that for most wineries, when we meet with them, they’ll come to the office or you will talk to them through the computer: A majority of wineries believe — and this was especially true pre-Covid, I’m not sure how much this is now believed post-Covid — that one of the biggest ways that they can push discovery of their wines is by being in a glass-pour program. That’s the holy grail. It’s getting your wine — not the wine list — but on the glass-pour wine list at a top restaurant that’s known for attracting people who like wine. I’m curious, first of all, if we think that’s accurate or not? Secondly, if it is or isn’t, how relevant is the glass-pour program at this point in time to millennials and through the basis of price? As we discussed in the last millennial episode, one of the things that is hurting wine a lot is rabid competition and the willingness of consumers — especially millennials and Gen Z — to switch. Not going from an expensive red wine to a cheaper red wine or a cheaper white wine, but to go from a wine that they think is a little bit too pricey to a cocktail. It seems to me that that’s probably one of the biggest threats to the discovery of wine right now. At least when I look at the majority of glass lists across the city, those glass prices are often equal or more expensive than the cocktails. I think that’s a real problem. But before we get there, I’m curious if you have discovered wines through glass programs. Joanna, what about you?

J: I definitely have. Typically when I go out to a restaurant, I’m looking at the beverage list, which usually includes cocktails, beer, and wine all together. I do that before I go to a wine list. And I think that’s certainly a more approachable way for me to discover new and interesting wines before making the leap to a full bottle.

A: It’s the first date, if you will.

J: Sure, exactly. I just want to try it, see how it goes before I commit. I certainly still do that. But I think that increasingly, as wine-by-the-glass prices go up, there is a moment of pause after the first cocktail. Or I’m like, “Should I try another cocktail or should I get a glass of wine?” It’s because the prices are comparable or wine is more expensive. I think it’s a useful tool for discovery for me, but it’s less so now as the prices go up.

A: Yeah. Zach, I want to hear what you have to say, too. But I think you have a little bit of a different aspect because you’ve come from running glass programs, too. With glass-pours, for me, there definitely is the opportunity for discovery, but I think it’s a lot less than wineries think it is. My challenge would be that you’re having to buy so much volume for a glass bar program that wineries get to sell through a lot, but I actually don’t think a lot of consumers are really paying attention to what the wine is. It’s like, “Oh, I want a white and there’s a Chardonnay and this happens to be there and it’s around my price points, so I’ll drink it.” I definitely have found myself ordering wines much less by the glass than I did in my baby wine days. Now, I see the economics of buying a bottle. I’m usually with one or more people, so it just makes sense.

J: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Purchasing a bottle of wine while you’re out is a bigger expense, obviously.

A: This is weird and it might just be a me thing, but I’m curious if this resonates with you guys or any of our listeners. The only time I find myself drinking wine by the glass is when I’m sitting at a bar. If I’m at the bar of a restaurant or I’m at a wine bar and I’m actually at the bar, I don’t know what it is. When I go to a restaurant, if my first drink is not a bottle of wine, it is going to be a cocktail. It’s very rare to start with a glass of wine and then move on to a bottle. I usually have a cocktail and if there are enough people, we’ll either have a bottle of red or white. Or I’m going to have a cocktail and then I’m going to have one bottle with myself and Naomi. That’s what we do. But if I’m at the bar, like this last time when I was at Union Square Cafe, I met a friend for a drink and we each had two glasses of wine each. We had two glasses, we didn’t split a bottle. It’s weird to split a bottle at the bar.

J: But don’t you think that if a place has a really compelling wine program and they have great wines by the glass, it’s a great way to try different wines without even getting a bottle?

A: 100 percent, and I guess that’s what I would do only at the wine bar.And then it would be at a wine bar when they’re not also trying to do cocktails, although now, a lot of wine bars also are doing cocktails. So I don’t know. But Zach, what do you think?

Z: I was going to say, the wine bar piece of this is really fascinating and I think is a place where a lot of this kind of discovery does happen. The kind of person who goes into a wine bar is probably more inclined to be viewing that experience as a chance to try something new, expand their experience with wine, maybe discover a new favorite, and is going to be paying a lot more attention to the labels and to the names of the producers. They might even make a note, “Hey, I really like this wine. In places where this is legal, maybe I’ll get a bottle to go.” Or look it up and I’ll figure some way out to get it. I think in restaurant settings, and this was my experience running restaurant wine programs for years, a small fraction of people who ordered wine by the glass cared at all who made it. They probably had the variety or style of it in mind. They wanted a glass of Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, or whatever. And basically they said, “I’ll have a glass of Pinot,” and you would serve whatever you had.

J: And you would serve the closest thing you had to it.

Z: Exactly, if you don’t have the thing they’re looking for. That whole dynamic is, I think, evidence to the point that you were making at the outset, Adam, which is that, it’s probably not a great avenue for discovery for wineries. But it is, as you described, a great outlet for wine. We went through a lot of glass-pour wines in a week and a month. Wineries and distributors who represented wines coveted those glass-pour placements. Not so much for the sake of discovery, but because it was a way to move their inventory. If you’re selling, as I was at one point, three cases of Cabernet Sauvignon by the glass a week, even if that winery or that distributor at that price point is lower and maybe not making the same margin, that volume matters, right? That drives a lot of revenue and moves their inventory in a way that a bottle placement on the list, even if it’s a nicer wine, I’m going to sell a fraction of what I sold by the glass because that’s how a lot of people do it. We may not be great examples of people who go in and buy a lot of wine by the glass. But certainly in my experience, that was a pretty big chunk of our wine sales everywhere I worked. Because people are out with people who have different tastes in wine or someone at the table wants a cocktail. You’re not always going to reach that kind of agreement on a bottle, even if I think that would be good for people a lot of the time, both financially and just experientially. But the other thing I wanted to add here, is that something that wineries don’t always contemplate when it comes to trying to get into the glass-pour program, is if your way of doing that is through a second label or creating a wine that is solely intended for on-premise glass-pour purposes — because you’re purchasing fruit or you’re looking at stuff that’s left over after you’ve made your more expensive wines — sometimes it can actually show your winery in not the best light. There is a downside for your main point of access for most drinkers to be, not that you’re not proud of that wine, I think a lot of winemakers are proud of all the wines they make, but there’s some truth to the notion that if it’s not quite odds and ends, it is like, “Well, we have all this wine left over.” Let’s put it together in a way that makes it the best it can be. But it’s not necessarily the showcase for the vineyard, the winemakers’ talents, etc., that other wines that they make are. It can sometimes turn people off. I’ve definitely experienced that a few times, both in tasting wines and in selling them to people. They try the glass-pour and they’re just like, “It’s all right, I guess. I’ll have something else.”

A: And you’re like, “Man, if you knew this stuff this producer really made you would love it?” Yeah, that’s really interesting. I hadn’t ever thought about that, but that’s definitely something to think about. This leads us into the second part of our conversation, which is that I think, a lot of the time, these labels are created for cost in order to provide something where they can give somewhat of a value to a consumer by the glass. But if this is a product that’s only really available by the glass, it’s hard for the consumer to find. It’s often that the consumer, from what I have found to like, falls in love with a wine by the producer. You have to have the producer over and over again in order to be like, “You know what? Everything that X wine producer makes, I trust.” And I’m going to drink, but I love X wine from the producer. If you’ve never been able to have X wine and all you’ve had is their glass-pour, and then you can’t find that glass-pour at your local wine shop because you only have the other wines that maybe are more expensive, I don’t think that that really helps with this discovery and making a longterm customer. You want them to be able to find the exact wine they had by the glass at the wine shop the next day. There continues to be that disconnect in the wine industry where the producers don’t understand that; these are my on-premise, these are my off-premise wines.

Z: Adam in particular, you probably could speak to this in some sense with your business background. But I think wineries also often make the inaccurate assumption that all it takes is someone having one glass of your wine to convert them into a customer. That’s just not how it works. They have to try that wine over and over again. That happens, I don’t mean to say it never does. But the odds that someone is going to drink a glass-pour at a restaurant and then just suddenly be like, “Oh my God, I gotta join this wine club tomorrow,” it does not happen. I also have to add one other piece here before we move into pricing, because I think it’s important. The other downside for wineries treating restaurant glass-pour lists as a point of discovery is that, and I hate to say this, a lot of glass-pour wines in restaurants are handled really poorly. The bottle might be open for several days. It might be stored in non-ideal conditions. You go into restaurants and sometimes the bottles are in full sunlight. They’re somewhere easy to reach but might be too warm. Glasses of white wine might be in a super-cold refrigerator and served almost ice cold to people. It is not the optimal experience for enjoying wine. Glass-pour wines in restaurants mostly exist for the person who wants a glass of wine, but for whatever set of reasons, cannot or will not get a bottle of wine. Which in almost all cases in a restaurant is going to almost certainly give you a slightly better experience, if not a vastly better experience. Just because some of those variables are taken out of the equation. The wine is opened at your table, you don’t have to wonder how recently that bottle was opened. That is another thing that a lot of wineries don’t really consider when thinking about this, which is, unless you’re in a really good-quality wine bar or restaurant, your glass-pour wine is going to be beaten up. That’s just the reality of restaurants.

J: To your earlier point, if people are ordering without even looking at the menu for something that’s closest to the wine that they’re looking for, they wouldn’t necessarily know the producer to come back to it anyway.

A: Just to take it back to business for a second, I think that the magic number, in terms of trials, is three times. If you think about that as a producer, and again I always have this argument with wine producers, is, “Oh my God, our biggest win ever is we got in and we’re a glass-pour at Eleven Madison Park” or some other Michelin-star-crazy special-occasion place. Cool, who is coming back two more times to have that glass-pour? Nobody. Your biggest win is that you’re the glass-pour at the neighborhood restaurant that people go to weekly. That’s the win, right? That’s actually where you hook the consumers. It’s not being the glass-pour at the special occasion restaurant that people can’t afford.

J: Once in your life.

A: I mean, the amount of Michelin-star restaurants in NYC that I’ve been to is very small. I’ve never re-frequented any of them. That’s always such an issue for me with these producers, because I get it, there’s prestige behind that restaurant and it makes you feel really cool to be in that restaurant. To say, “You know what? I have a glass-pour at Marea.” That’s awesome; Marea is a great restaurant. But the amount of people that normally eat at Marea are like Michael Bloomberg and a few others. Do you know what I mean? And I know that because he was a regular. One of my friends was a sommelier there, and they saw him all the time. But that’s very, very rare. It’s a bunch of very wealthy people that are regulars at places like that and they probably have someone else who is choosing the wine for them and building their collections.

Z: Are they drinking the glass-pours anyhow?

A: Exactly, you want to be the glass-pour at the local neighborhood spot. Once you are the glass-pour, though, your next problem is, you are fighting against cocktails. This is the thing that the three of us have noticed a lot recently, is it really feels like the glass-pours are becoming more expensive than the cocktails. If you’re making an economic decision, you’re going to choose a cocktail every time. I know there’s a lot we can’t do about this. Wine is an agricultural product. It’s the nature of making it. It is expensive to make; wine is an expensive product to make. But then maybe we have to do a better job of explaining that to consumers and why it costs more. But when it comes down to this alcohol delivery system or that alcohol delivery system, it always feels like the cocktail wins based on price.

J: I wanted to ask you both, because I’m not actually sure of this. The SVB report mentioned that wine is suffering on-premise pretty badly. Which came first? Was it the prices being too high for people to purchase it and it doing badly on-premise, or it doing badly on-premise and then the prices being too high? And will the prices only continue to go up for wines by the glass as a result of this?

Z: That’s a good question. I think that to some extent, the price creep predates some of wine really suffering against cocktails in particular. And I think this for two reasons. One of them is that the price creep is a function of two related but discrete phenomena in restaurants. The first is, and this may have been going on longer in some places like in NYC, but a universal shift from the default pour for a glass of wine being 6 ounces to 5 ounces. Which doesn’t seem like a big deal, but is the difference between four and a little bit pours in a bottle versus five full pours if you’re really precise. A standard 750-milliliter bottle of wine has 25.4 ounces of liquid in it. So you’re getting exactly five pours for a glass-pour, if you’re pouring a 5-ounce glass. But when places either shifted over to 5 ounces from 6, or that’s how they opened, pricing didn’t adjust. Places didn’t say, “OK, we’re going to drop the cost of each glass a little bit to offset the fact that we’re getting more out of a bottle.” Or, people are getting less for what they paid. Pricing stayed the same. And I think you have seen a rapaciousness in the industry broadly for deriving profit from drinks. This has affected cocktails, too, but I think it’s been most glaring in wine. When I started running wine programs, the default markup for a glass-pour of wine was looked at in one of two ways. You basically charged the bottle price per glass. So if the bottle costs you wholesale $13, a glass is $13. This was at places where you got a 6-ounce pour. That model has remained pretty constant. I know this, and certainly here in Seattle, I have a pretty good handle on what wholesale costs for a lot of wines are. You start to see that the bottle cost them $13, but they think they can get $15 a glass. You’re just starting to see this push up because operators are desperate for profit, understandably. Beverage alcohol, in general, is both seen as a place where you can kind of fudge it a little bit because people aren’t super aware of what the cost is for the restaurant. It’s an optional thing in most places. Some spaces like wine bars are a little more price sensitive because they realize that that’s really what people are coming in for. But in a lot of restaurants, places are really concerned with their food pricing, because that’s the thing that people look at first. That’s the menu that they consult first, and it’s easier to hide price increases in beverage alcohol than it is in an entree or a salad or whatever. People just recoil when you cross certain thresholds with those items, even if it’s what you should be charging to cover your costs and all that. I have one last thing I’ll say about this, and I’m really curious for your guys’ thoughts. In addition to this price creep issue, you’ve also had this thing where — I don’t know if it’s always conscious — to be either distinct or different, restaurants have looked for more and more obscure wines. Instead of having a glass-pour Cabernet Sauvignon, they’ll have a glass or something that they tell you is like a Cabernet Sauvignon. Maybe it’s a Touriga Nacional from Portugal or something. This is not to knock any of these wines; there are lots of great wines out there. But they’re still charging you Cabernet Sauvignon-esque prices for a wine that is not that. They’re trying to kind of have their cake and eat it, too, when it comes to lowering their cost. Maybe in their eyes, they are offering a distinctive experience and still charging premium variety prices for what are not, to be fair, premium varieties. That has also been an ongoing thing and has a lot of different factors that play into it. But I think it’s created this upswell of pricing that has somehow pushed wine. I mean, when I started working in restaurants, the cheapest thing you could get to drink when you went out was a beer, but a glass of wine was distinctly less expensive than a cocktail. If you were the person who was ordering cocktails, you were the fancy one. You could have a glass of wine for $10, a cocktail would cost you $12 or $13, and a beer would be $6 or $7. Now, wine has just skyrocketed past cocktails.

A: As you were chatting, I was thinking about this. What I think is the most change that I’ve seen in the last few years is that, for the most part, cocktail prices are all the same on a list. A restaurant decides that the program is $16 for the most part. Maybe one of them is $18, and they’ll say that it has premium spirits or things like that. But for the most part, this is the cocktail list, and there are six or seven cocktails, all at $15, $16, $17. It’s also based on whatever that neighborhood is willing to bear. You can go to the West Village and they’re all $22 or something. There might be one glass of wine around the same price of the cocktails, and then everything else is higher. You’ll have one wine that’s all $16 and then three that are $20, one that’s $22, and one that’s $25. They’re like, “This is a special glass-pour that we’re only offering this week.” It’s cool for people that want to do that, but I do think that you actually have less exploration. So the other way that you’re trapping the consumers is because the one or two glass-pours that are at the same price as the cocktail, I’m not that interested in. One was, I don’t know, a Chardonnay, and the other one was a Cabernet. Let’s pick on the one that Zach started talking about. And then there’s eight cocktail varieties. I like tequila and I’m really into bourbon and whatever. So I can get down with this and I feel like I have more choices. So I’m going to go with the cocktail list because of that. Because while I’m really interested in the other wines on the list, they’re more expensive, and I’m just not going to play that game tonight, or I don’t want to take that risk, or whatever. So they don’t. That also seems to be much more of a recent phenomenon. It was much more common during the last five or six years. Again, when I was a baby wine drinker, the glass-pours were all the same price. It was like, “Here’s our four wines by the glass, all at $14.” And that’s definitely changed.

J: Something else that I’ve seen that I think is really interesting on wines-by-the-glass lists is, putting the bottle price next to it as well to incentivize the bottle purchase. This actually makes more sense for you to buy this bottle, which I think is an interesting decision. But to your point, Adam, something else that I think of when I’m looking at this list, if I’m out to dinner with a group of people and we’re getting cocktails or wines by the glass, I don’t want to be the sh*thead who orders the most expensive thing.

A: Especially if you’re just splitting the bill equally, which is what most people do.

J: If everyone else is getting a cocktail, I’ll get a cocktail as well, because I’m not going to order the wine that I like but that’s more expensive than everything else.

A: I love to be baller status where I go out to dinner with friends and am like, “Y’all, I got the bill.” But that still doesn’t happen as often as I would like it to. I like to treat when I can. But I do think that when you get past a certain age, usually it’s after your first few years with a job, you stop itemizing the bill. You just split it evenly. But then when you’re splitting it evenly, your point is so spot on. You don’t want to be the prick that ordered the steak when everyone else ordered pasta. No one wants to be that person, or you get a reputation. So if you’re the person that when everyone else orders cocktails, and are like, “That $25 glass that they said is the special sounds really good to me today,” you’re an asshole.

J: We all have those friends.

A: We all have those friends, and they all sort of know that they’re that friend, too. You know what I mean?

J: Because they’re splitting it evenly.

A: They don’t care. They’re like, “Yeah, I’m here for the even split.” I hate that. They tend to get asked out to dinner less and less.

Z: So if you’re Adam’s friend and you’re wondering why he hasn’t invited you to dinner…

A: Oh, gosh, yeah.

Z: I want to add one piece to this really quick, specifically about the wine-versus-cocktail thing. It’s also important to note here that there’s also the element that the cocktail is made to order for you. It feels like a special thing, right? The restaurant has come up with the recipe. With the glass-pour, they bring over a f*cking glass and half the time it’s already been poured away from the table, even if it’s poured tableside. You don’t feel special getting a glass of Malbec or whatever.

J: We said it before, too, it’s a better value. You’re like, “Oh, more work is going into this, so it’s worth spending $16 or $17.”

Z: Honestly, as we talked about at the beginning, it also probably has more alcohol in it. A 3-ounce cocktail is almost certainly going to have more booze in it than a 5-ounce glass-pour. Obviously, that’s not the consideration that everyone uses, but it’s a consideration that some people use. If it’s cheaper and boozier and feels more special, no sh*t. No wonder people are not getting glasses of wine as often. It sounds like a dumb choice, and in some ways, probably it is.

A: Sitting here thinking about human psychology, I’d never fully thought about the bottle price next to the glass-pour until you mentioned it, Joanna. I think that the way that restaurants believe it’s helping is it’s enticing you. But the way it’s also hurting is, it’s showing the consumer how they’re getting f*cked.

J: This is a bad price for this wine glass.

A: This is not a great price for this glass. This is not equal, this is not the same price. All of a sudden it’s like, “Oh sh*t, the cocktail.” When I also have gotten wines by the glass in the past, it always is at the bar. But then it’s always at a restaurant where there’s just a glass price. The more I’m thinking about my own behavior, this is their glass list and it’s wines by the glass. I’m sure if I said, “I really love this bottle of Etna Bianco from Benanti,” I’m sure they would sell it to me. But there is nowhere on that Union Square Cafe list where you can find that price, unless I probably went digging in the overall wine list. I think that is a very smart decision. Don’t tell me how I’m getting f*cked. I don’t want to know, because I only wanted a glass so I shouldn’t know. That’s a really interesting observation.

J: I want to talk about the opportunity for sparkling wine in this, because I think that a lot of people start with a cocktail and then move on to wine, if they move on to wine at all. But I think sparkling wine could be a very good place to start for people. That’s where I think it should be competitively priced so that people opt for it instead of a cocktail.

A: I agree, and I think that it should be competitively priced with lots of different varieties.

J: Maybe there’s one sparkling wine by the glass.

A: What’s so depressing to me is there are usually one or two, and one’s always, at this point, a Prosecco, which we’re planning to talk about later this week for our Friday episode — a little plug. It’s always Prosecco, and then maybe it’s a Cava. Or if you’re at a restaurant in Brooklyn, it’s probably a Pét-Nat. But give me five or six. And I get it, you have to open them and then you’re worried about them going flat. I get why that part of the list is small, but I think there’s a huge opportunity and you’re 100 percent right. You could be stealing the share. I actually wonder now, thinking about myself, if there was more of a variety of by-the-glass sparkling, if I would order a glass of sparkling prior to my meal as opposed to a cocktail. Because I want something right before I go and get into the bottle. I love sparkling wine, we all know this, but there’s not a lot of options ever. I’m not investing in a bottle of Champagne with Naomi and then a bottle of red. What are we? You’re having a bottle of wine per person. You guys know my wife; she’s really little. She’s 5’3, I can’t do this. It’s not going to happen. But I think I would. I would not do the cocktail first and then the bottle; I would do a glass of sparkling wine if I had opportunities. Joanna, you should run a wine program. Well, this has been really interesting. We’d love to hear your thoughts. We continue to get amazing emails, even one today from people who listened to the millennial episode. So please let us know your thoughts, what you think about the by-the-glass program, where you think it works, and where it doesn’t. Especially if you currently work in a restaurant and one of your jobs is building a glass program, we’d love to hear what you think about this. Hit us up at [email protected]. As always, it’s super interesting to hear from everybody. And as always, please like, rate, and review. Always ask more people to discover the show. Zach and Joanna, I’ll talk to you Friday.

J: See you Friday.

Z: Sounds great.
Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, please leave us a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now for the credits. VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and Seattle, Washington, by myself and Zach Geballe, who does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-ut to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all of this possible, and also to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tastings director, who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team, who are instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

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