This week, Jake goes out with comedian and former “Summer House” star Hannah Berner. The two bond over their complicated relationships with weed, discuss what it’s really like to be on reality TV, and trade weird wedding stories. Tune in for more.

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Jake Cornell: I can’t even do anything. It’s, you can’t go meet a friend for drinks or anything.

Hannah Berner: No. Yeah, because then you’re tired by 11. I did that last night. I had a speaking thing and then I did dinner and I ate. And then I was like, “Ooh.” And then I went to do a gig at 11.

J: I know.

H: It was bad. Also, the worst thing that happens is… I’m happy I’m getting spots obviously, but at The Stand on the weekends, they will give me a 7, a 9, an 11, and a 1.

J: The 1 is tough.

H: But also the socializing in between is exhausting. I want to be on stage. So I’m sitting there, just thinking, “This group is sick of talking to me. That group’s sick of talking to me.”

J: I know. That time that we met briefly at The Stand, that was my first time there. I’d mostly do stuff in Brooklyn. And it reminded me, because I used to do UCB way back in the day and the energy of The Stand green room was so intense and also triggering to my… I was like, “What the f*ck is this?” And triggering my UCB green room memories.

H: But you know what? That wasn’t normal Stand green room energy. That was audition…

J: I know. I hate… The second I got there, I was, I don’t want to do this. I hated the energy of the room.

H: It was, yeah, stand-up auditioning.

J: Were you auditioning?

H: Yeah. I had been up earlier in the lineup. My first audition, I did Gotham and I was the first one up. And I’m like, this is either going to go incredible or horrible. But I was just sitting in the back with a friend and then everyone was, “Oh. Meh meh meh.”

J: I know.

H: It’s normally actually people smoking weed down there and playing music, and I hang out upstairs where it’s more social.

J: Yeah. I couldn’t handle it. Just the energy of nervous stand-up comedians is…

H: Oh my God.

J: Worst thing in the world.

H: It is. This one guy was, “Is it bad that I haven’t enjoyed stand-up in three weeks?” And we were, “No, that’s normal.”

J: Yeah. I know. It’s also, it’s funny because I feel like the Brooklyn comics, I feel like at a Brooklyn stand-up show, everyone’s just a little bit more chill. And I feel like the Manhattan stand-ups, because I feel like they’re the ones that are really hitting the pavement, are just like, “I think about dying every day.” They’re just truly miserable.

H: I joke. Because when I go to comedy in Brooklyn, I’m like, “Oh, I have to think of an ethereal joke. I have to think of a smarter joke.” And then I’m like, “I’m f*cking from Brooklyn. Why am I trying to fit in with these people who move from other places into Brooklyn? I am Brooklyn, b*tches!” Anyway.

J: So have you lived in New York your whole life, or did you ever leave?

H: I was born in the Bronx and then after a year we moved to Brooklyn to move into where my dad grew up in Park Slope. And then when I was 14, I moved to Florida to go to a tennis academy because I was one of those intense tennis players. And then, I got a scholarship to play tennis at University of Wisconsin.

J: Whoa.

H: And then when you’re playing tennis tournaments, you travel to all these random-ass places. It is similar to stand-up where on the weekends, you’re just like, “Well, how did I end up in Idaho?”

J: Gigging.

H: Yeah. But then after college I was like, “I need to go back to New York.” I’m very much one of those New Yorkers where “there’s no place better than New York,” but I do love going. In my stand-up travels, I’ve learned that every city has at least one block.

J: Yeah.

H: That’s lit. One block that’s cool, good restaurants, a thrift store.

J: It’s just about finding it.

H: So every place I’ve enjoyed, but I really love the people in New York City.

J: Yeah. So are you a going-outer? This is a show about going out, so I’m curious.

H: So I have the worst party anxiety ever.

J: Really?

H: I’m so bad at partying.

J: And has that always been true?

H: Yes. A classic story is I went to the University of Wisconsin on a trip where the athletes kind of take you out to make you want to go to the school. It’s a recruiting trip.

J: Oh, word word.

H: And I literally called my mom and I was like “Is it okay if I drink a beer?” She’s like, “Don’t tell me this. You don’t have to ask me.” And I’m like, “Do I really need to go out later?” I would call my mom and be like, “Do I have to go to this party?”

J: Whoa.

H: I didn’t know why. I thought it was just because…

J: Was she a really strict parent growing up?

H: No.

J: Okay.

H: No. My mom at one point was like “Please do ayahuasca, do something.” And I think it’s because I was just a hardcore athlete. I never drank, I never smoked. And I feel like New York, growing up in New York City, the people who are partying are doing acid, it’s not a casual thing. There were the druggies when I was 15 and they scared me and yeah, my friends smoked weed. I was always like I’d smoke weed and I’d cry. I was super paranoid. I would try it once every two years and have the worst experience. And then I didn’t drink until college, but…

J: Is Wisconsin a party school?

H: Huge party school. It’s very “sports rah rah party.” And it’s also f*cking freezing. So you need a liquid layer, you need a liquid layer and I’m actually quite good at a one-night celebration party. I’ll be out till 3 a.m. with everyone. I go hard, but I’m not naturally a good casual drinker. If we go out to eat, I’m not let’s get a couple glasses of wine. I’ll be that friend. That’s like “Oh, I’m actually good.” And they’re like, “Really?” But from my stand-up, I think people think I love partying. I also was on a party reality TV show.

J: Totally.

H: So after shows people are like “Let’s do cocaine.” And I’m actually a grandma. And I think it’s social anxiety, just parties. I never loved drinking or smoking. So I would be like, “Okay, I have to make everyone think I’m funny.” That’s a lot of pressure.

J: Yeah. It’s so interesting that you aren’t into those things. And yet you were drawn to stand-up comedy and a reality show in which…

H: Dude, it’s crazy.

J: Those two environments are so party-adjacent.

H: It’s actually just, I love entertaining and I love writing and I love performing, but we were talking earlier. I don’t like the late-night spots. I don’t drink. I really take it as a real job to me, occasionally when I was shooting a reality TV show, I wish that they had — you know how on ESPN they have stats underneath players? I wish they had the stats for how many drinks we were in when we were fighting. Because other people would be 20 drinks in and I’d be four drinks in and be like “I’m f*cked up.” But I don’t want to take credit if it’s not due. But I feel like “Summer House” made, they definitely made rosé popular in the beginning. But then when I came there, I feel like we started the Espresso Martini trend. Because we would be drinking all day, fighting all day, and then we’d have to go to a restaurant at 9:30 and start new fights and have new conversations. So we were like, we have to order Espresso Martinis because they get you drunk. They get you hyper and you will sh*t yourself at the end of the night, but it’s very freeing for me. So I love Espresso Martinis. They don’t taste like alcohol, and you just get hyped the f*ck up. So that was performative for me to get Espresso Martinis. I’d have five of them.

J: I mean, when you have a long day, they are sort of a necessity. They’re a medical tool at that point.

H: But I was a weird kid. I was like, I don’t really like how alcohol tastes.

J: Sure.

H: And I was very paranoid that it would affect my tennis career, but I love hanging out with people who smoke weed.

J: Yeah. Well, it’s soothing.

H: Their energy soothes me. Soothes me. As you can tell, people think I’m high all the time because I don’t make sense, and I love eating and giggling.

J: Yeah.

H: So I’m kind of normally high.

J: I can’t smoke weed in social situations. I’m at home alone before bed type of person.

H: Yes.

J: That’s really my only space for weed and the beach, but the beach. One of my favorite…

H: And the south of France. And Tulum.

J: Yeah. One time I was at the beach with my friends and we were playing with a Frisbee in the water and I turned literally on top of the world to my friend. And I was like “Why is this the most fun I’ve ever had?” And my friend Caroline looks at me, everything fades away and she looks at me and she goes, “You’re drunk and high.”

H: It’s funny because a lot of people, even last night I was with my friends and I didn’t drink because I had a spot later, and I was being goofy as f*ck and they all stop and they’re like, “The funniest thing is you’re the sober one right now.” But I’m just known to be when I’m sober, I seem like I’m drunk and high. And I’ve had just bad weed situations, like hanging out with groups of people. I don’t know that well and getting high. That’s not smart.

J: No, I won’t do that. I can’t do that.

H: Or smoking when I know my boyfriend doesn’t want me to smoke it just, and then looking in the mirror and you’re like “Is my face oval or round?” I don’t know what the f*ck… I’m that, and I’ll ruin the party. So I also am a control freak.

J: Yeah.

H: I don’t like losing control of my mind. And I try to learn how to love, be happy, being sober, loving who I am sober, which is a journey and also being okay with the conversations in my head when I’m sober, which is a life’s journey.

J: I know. I honestly am on a similar journey and I haven’t ever vocalized that out loud. But that experience of being, wanting to show up in social situations in the same way you can, when you’re a little buzzed, but doing it dead sober.

H: Well I think that when I’m buzzed, I actually lose my wit.

J: You lose it?

H: Yeah. I’m just shaking my ass.

J: Yeah.

H: And I’ll say something stupid. So I am more scared to be drunk in front of people.

J: Totally. If I’m with people I’m close with, my friends and stuff…

H: Oh yeah.

J: I’m on my A game when I’m sober. I think if I’m in a new situation or if I’m at a party where I don’t know people that well or it’s a lot of acquaintances, I feel like I’m, let me get a little buzzed and I’ll be really on it.

H: Yeah.

J: But also, I doubt that’s actually true.

H: Yeah. It’s probably in your own head. I’m good at first dates. I’m good at interviews. I can turn it on like that, but then I’m exhausted after because it’s effort and social battery.

J: With all of this, I’m just so interested, how did you handle, energetically, being on a reality show like “Summer House?”

H: I am actually a sensitive soul. I’m very outgoing and stuff, but my first two seasons were actually the dream situation of a reality TV show. They cast me as the funny truth teller. I had a really fun, romantic story and the second season and then the third season, they locked us up with Covid and my career started to do well, and that’s when things just weren’t good in my last season.

J: Yeah.

H: Because basically reality TV’s scary when they turn. They’re like, “Okay, your storyline has been too positive,” and then you don’t have control of what they want. Basically, imagine people who don’t like you narrating your life to other people, and then you’re just silenced. And then you’re just watching them filling the gaps, and you’re like, “Oh!” Even if you feel like you did fine, if other people don’t like you, you’re f*cked.

J: Yeah.

H: But it did teach me, A, that I tried it out and it gave me a great platform. And if I had a little more control over post, I could see myself doing it more. But it also really taught me the biggest lesson. Because as someone who is a performer, we want to be liked. It was great to have people not like you based on something that’s not even you because that’s my biggest, scariest fear. And the universe was like, “Let’s level up.”

J: Yeah.

H: It was f*cking hard.

J: I mean there’s a relief when something you’re really afraid of happens because now you can’t be afraid of it happening.

H: You’re so right.

J: There’s a relief to that.

H: Well, everyone kept being like, “This happened for a reason. This is a blessing. You weren’t meant to do it anymore.” But then you’re waiting around in a very actor and performance way where you’re like “Okay, well where’s my next TV show? Why did this happen?” But I’ve recently come to a conclusion. Yeah. That stuff comes and goes. It’s more like, internally I grew. I just didn’t know that, because I was sad for a while.

J: Well, of course. It’s hard to instantly the moment something that happens to be like, “This will be good. It’s growing.” You’re allowed to mourn it for a second.

H: And people are like, “Oh my God.” Because also I was having this whole comedy career that they weren’t showing behind the scenes. That was my passion.

J: That makes so much sense because you’re the editor on that and the writer on that, and you’re in control of the narrative. You’re in control of the optics of it.

H: Actually, I think I was good at reality TV because I wanted to show all sides of me. I wanted to show my mistakes. I was very open about it, but then things can get twisted and turned and just dark. Whereas in stand-up I’m able to be fully myself, and I’m totally fine with being judged when I feel at least I was myself. Because people see you through their own lens. The hard thing in reality TV is people see you through their own lens. Plus the lens of this simplified storyline that you fit in as a character. And I love showing that women especially are multifaceted beings. You could be hot while also being depressed while also being a boss while also being insecure, and reality TV is not the greatest place for my voice to be heard.

J: No, absolutely not.

H: But I’ll take the followers.

J: Hell yeah. I mean it’s so true. Failing is so much easier to take when it’s a hundred percent on you, which doesn’t actually make sense when I think you first say, but it’s, if I go out on stage and I do stand- up…

H: That was powerful, what you just said.

J: Really? But it’s, if I go out on stage and I wrote it and I bomb, I’m okay, it didn’t work and now I can change it. And I tried something.

H: Also, it’s an expression of art.

J: Yes.

H: I’m so much easier on myself with stand-up because I’m so proud of you that you tried that joke.

J: Yeah. But if you’re working with a brand, whatever it is, or you’re working with a casting director, or when something doesn’t work, and you’re like, “This isn’t because of what I did. It’s because of the notes that were put on it, or the way it was edited, or the way that whatever happened.” And this isn’t me saying it wasn’t my fault. But you can tell it wasn’t totally because of what I did.

H: No and the control freak in me is like, “No, no, no, no, no. I’ve done everything to avoid this.” I was talking to my therapist about it, about how forgiveness is really powerful. Forgiving, not taking things as personally, because I’m also a very loyal friend. And when I’m like, “Oh you’re trying to ruin my life,” I can’t ever be near you anymore.

J: Yeah.

H: Reality TV is a lot of… You just have to move on when the storylines are over. Like, new storyline, we’re fine. We’re fine.

J: And is it? So I can’t…

H: When I’m like “Whoa, whoa, whoa”

J: Where is the line? How do you know what is real and what’s not?

H: Well we live in a meta reality. Okay, this is how I’ll explain reality TV. I’ll come up to you and I’ll be like, “People think that you’ve been mean lately,” and you’ll be like, “Oh God, now this is a story they’re making.” And you’ll be like, “Okay.” And then afterwards I’ll be like, “Sorry, the producer made me ask you that.” And then in your head you’re thinking, “Okay, was it the producer, or was it you?” And you don’t know. So you guys are playing this game of “Oh, it’s for the show.” But then you’re also like, “Well, f*ck you, b*tch.” And then when it’s convenient, people will be like, “We’re not your friend.” And then you’re like, “Oh, whoa. So we’re actually in a fight? I’m just so confused right now.” So it’s the most mind games ever. And to be honest, I was the girl who was friends with everyone and played tennis on the weekends. I never was good at the snaky sh*t. I never was good at the confusing friend drama. I was very scared of confrontation. And I wanted to do the show to entertain people, make people laugh. And then when that expired for me, I was like, “Okay, this isn’t for me anymore.”

J: And you’re f*cking funny. I’ve seen you perform.

H: Oh, thank you.

J: I’ve seen your stand-up and enjoy it. It’s you don’t need to be, I don’t need to see you fighting with someone.

H: Well, that’s the thing. That’s not my best. When I fight with someone, I start crying, I say stupid sh*t. I’m not meant to do that.

J: Well, it makes sense because it’s so much…

H: It’s not where I shine.

J: No, especially if you’re someone who’s not getting f*cked up. And also being a good comedian is being a good communicator, and fights are results of bad communication.

H: Yes.

J: And so it’s upsetting when you’re like, “I’m not being understood. I’m not being heard. I’m not being given the opportunities to communicate.”

H: Well, as comics, we just want to be heard.

J: Well, yeah.

H: And also it’s an expression of yourself and being really honest. And I just realized that seeing me fight and stuff is really fun and it is true and raw, but they don’t want people who are self-aware. They want to edit so people laugh at you. So they don’t show any of me and my friend just being funny together.

J: Right.

H: Because people watch it to laugh at you and feel better about themselves, which is honestly totally fine with me. I love being laughed at too, but you’re like “Oh, this is really not the best me that I’m giving to people. I’m actually way more valuable being authentically myself than the totally saturated version of myself that’s been oversimplified and more extreme.”

J: So now I have a million questions, but tying it into this, because obviously we could talk about your time on the show or whatever, but what I find so much more interesting is your life outside of it and your life now in terms of…  And also I think it’s interesting because you’re from New York and you live in New York now and it’s probably just so different, your experience. What is it like being out and about in New York City now after that show, and also just living in a city that is so different from the one you grew up in, but is the same city?

H: Yeah. Well I love the show also because it’s supposed to be about New Yorkers who go to the Hamptons on the weekend. And I grew up in Brooklyn, and then on the weekends, I had family in Shelter Island, which is way out and that’s where I learned to play tennis. And so the show felt like a decent fit for me. Except I actually don’t love partying that much. So I feel like I would’ve done better if I was, you don’t want to be blackout because then who knows what you’ll say? But you want to be a little drunk to say loosey goosey where I would remember everything everyone said where they would not remember sh*t in the morning. I’d be, this person is the devil or they’d just cut all the stuff that didn’t make sense to the audience where I would remember everything that was said.

J: Oh my God.

H: So being in the city now, it’s funny because certain neighborhoods know me from reality TV, certain neighborhoods, more people know me from TikTok and comedy. And I do have to say, TikTok low-key saved my life. I know that you love TikTok as well, where we can bond because Instagram has become a lot of reality TV followers where there’s a lot of hate because they put people against each other. It’s like WWE, and be people would be like, “I’m team this person and that person, and f*ck you,” and it’s very black and white. While on TikTok, I started posting my comedy, and initially it just sends you out to random people. So it’s not just people who know me from “Summer House.”

J: Well, no, to be honest, when we were talking about casting this season and I brought your name up, we were great. And then Katie later on mentioned “Summer House.” And I was like, what’s “Summer House?” I just knew you as a stand-up from TikTok.

H: See, that makes me obsessed with you.

J: And I genuinely didn’t and I booked you on this as a stand-up and knew you. And then I saw you at The Stand until very recently. And then I went back because I’m not the biggest Bravo reality person now. I was when I was younger. I went back and was like, “Oh, okay, this is a thing.” But I had no idea. I thought you were just a stand-up who came up like everyone else.

H: That makes me happy because I have put a lot of effort into trying to get that perception of me. Getting out of reality TV, it’s really hard to transition. I think three seasons. If I had done more, it would’ve been harder.

J: Sweet spot.

H: But also some people know me because my first job was at Betches, this media company where I was the seventh hire to do comedy videos for them. And I had no experience, but I knew how to edit, but I basically just came with a bunch of funny ideas. I was just a funny friend. I never thought that I could monetize it. Also, I grew up in New York. Everyone’s f*cking funny. My whole family’s hilarious.

J: Totally.

H: I didn’t know that it was something… I thought I was just a personality trait.

J: Same.

H: So then I was, wait, humor’s the only thing that’s been with me throughout my life.

J: Yeah.

H: When things are bad, having a sense of humor has always been f*cking there for me. So that’s what it is. I’m Mother Theresa. I’m giving back in that way. But I do think that in the city, having “Summer House,” sometimes it’s hard where it’s like that toxic ex-boyfriend but imagine people all the time talking about him to you and you’re like, “Okay, I’m moving on from that.” But then also, I’m so thankful for it. But then the city is obviously just the most amazing place to meet other comics who are blunt and honest with you. And they’re like, “Look you have a following. People are going to hate you for that.”

J: Yeah.

H: “You’re going to skip certain things that other people had to do.” And then I’ll argue and be like “Well, did you want to have hundreds of thousand people hate you for six months? Because of a super-popular reality TV show?” I feel like that’s equivalent to bombing in a basement for six months.

J: If not, maybe worse.

H: And also early on, I had to get my hour very early on in my career because I had a following. So I didn’t play by the rules of, “Oh, do five minutes for five years.” Within six months, I was doing an hour, which some people would’ve said is very risky and could be bad for your brand. But I have that stupidness to me where I just want to create and go out and try my best.

J: Also, if there’s something that I’ve learned that I wish I had learned earlier, it’s doing it the way it’s supposed to be done does not serve you.

H: Well also, look at us. We’re not the traditional comics that would go up the ladder and gatekeepers would be, absolutely, absolutely. We are creating our own. And also now the traditional comics who would be like, “Oh, this is how to become a comedian,” are now on TikTok and posting their sh*t.

J: 100 percent.

H: And I also think that I’ve gotten so much better as a comedian doing, just starting off with my hour and cutting the fat and making it better than just sticking to five minutes and trying to make it perfect for five years.

J: No, 100 percent. Yeah. There’s a luxury of being afforded more space to fail sooner and be like, “Oh, that didn’t work. I get to move on.” You know what I mean? Because I remember talking with, do you know Marcia Belsky?

H: Yes.

J: Yeah. So Marcia and I were talking and Marcia’s been doing stand-up longer than me because I was doing improv and sh*t before the pandemic. But she was like, “When you come up the traditional way as a woman, as a gay man, especially as a woman…” She was like, “I cannot tell you how many times I have seen a white man absolutely bomb. And some other white dude at the back of the theater goes, ‘No, he’s actually a genius.’” You know what I mean? Apologizing for him.

H: Or be like, “He’s a comic’s comic.”

J: Or being like, “No, he’s not normally this, normally he’s a f*cking genius.” But if a woman or person of color or a queer person bombs, they’re not going to get asked back, and they’re not going to get asked for next shows because you have to kill when you’re proving yourself. When you’re not these very traditional ideas of what a comic is, you have to show up and kill it every f*cking time or you fall down the ladder.

H: And that’s why, I guess people would’ve been, don’t just start doing an hour. This is crazy. But implicitly, I was calling it an hour. It was 30 with a Q&A. But now we’re at the hour, but I’m also more of, I learn from doing, and I also…

J: I write at least half of my act on stage.

H: You have to. It doesn’t correlate the same. I’ll think of stuff in the Uber going there because I also procrastinate. There’s also other sh*t I do during the day.

J: A hundred percent.

H: But stand-up is not becoming a lawyer where it’s A plus B equals C. But I also think what was great about me having a following is I actually didn’t give a f*ck if I went on a lineup, if someone thought I was funny, because I was like, “I don’t need your show. I have my own shows that I book for myself.” But also I do have a ton of respect where I did not come like, “I have a following, I’m f*cking amazing.” It was more that I took every note from every comic. I really, really learned from a lot of great comedian friends who came up in a different way than me to make sure that I am a sponge to different people in the industry, whether it’s improv, whether it’s the TikTokers, and I just love creating. And I also think, because tennis was very black and white to me of you’re a winner or you’re loser, I was very attached to my ego with it, where it was like, “I’m an amazing tennis player. And if I lose, I hate myself.” Where with stand-up, my ego’s not very attached to it. So…

J: That’s healthy.

H: That’s the only healthy thing I do. When I go on stage I’m not like “Oh, if I do bad, I hate myself.” I feel like I fell into stand-up because of a lot of different things. I never thought I wanted to be a stand-up growing up. It just was a super-natural progression for me, so I don’t feel a lot of pressure, no one put me onto it. It was something that I really fell into and it brings me joy. And if tomorrow I wake up and it doesn’t bring me joy, I’m doing something else.

J: Yeah and that’s the best way to do anything.

H: I mean, I was known for my tweets for a long time before “Summer House.” That’s where I first went viral. And when TikTok came out, I was like, “I want to put my creative energies towards TikToks.” And I stopped tweeting. Who cares?

J: I feel similar. I’ve actually done a similar thing where I don’t really make TikToks anymore. I don’t TikTok super often. And it was because it stopped feeling fun to me.

H: Yeah. Because people can smell it when you’re not having fun.

J: People can smell it. And it’s also just people started to, I started to have interactions with people where I was, people started to… I would, God forbid I make a sentence.

H: No, I’m invested in this sentence. I’m, this is a journey we’re going on.

J: People. You scream when I finally say it. I started to have interactions with people where I was, oh, you’re starting to think that you actually know me.

H: Oh yeah. It’s called a something relationship.

J: Parasocial.

H: Yes.

J: Yeah. And I was…

H: I don’t do words either.

J: I mean, I wasn’t going to come up with it unless you brought it up. I was like, “Oh I don’t want to be a vlogger.” I don’t want to be someone where people are, I want people to watch my TV show or watch my stand-up. But I don’t want people to know about my boyfriend. It’s scary. And no judgment to the people who do it. I just couldn’t put my life on the internet in that way.

H: People started after I did “Summer House” — and I’m with a comedian, my husband’s a comic, and I somehow convinced him to come on the show for, he came for two days and they made it a three-episode saga because he is great on camera, but it was because we missed each other because he wasn’t allowed to see me for weeks. And…

J: How long have you been together?

H: Two years or something. We got engaged in six months. It was a quickie. I just was, yes, you’re done. We’re done.

J: Great.

H: And he’s an older man, so he is exhausted. I love an older man now, but he literally was like, “I didn’t tell my agent because it would’ve been bad for me to go on and they would’ve said no.” So long story short, after it came out it was a really tough experience for us. He was like, “We don’t have to put our relationship out there.” And we stopped posting together. Because why do you post your relationship? It’s always when you’re insecure about sh*t. When you want external validation, when you have to give a whole paragraph about your ups and downs, because you f*cking hate each other.

J: Yes. It’s the same thing with like, why are you posting a photo of your night out? The least fun nights are the ones that people are taking photos of.

H: I always, that’s why I really skew away from Instagram and I posted tweets for so long. Because I’m, what’s the point of me posting a photo of myself? To make people jealous, to try to get compliments? It just never felt like the energy I wanted.

J: People who post about their relationships all the time. I’m like, baby…

H: You guys hate each other. I do hold things about the longer the caption of the relationship, the shorter time you’re going to be together.

J: Someone had a tweet once that truly killed me where it was the Christian girl you went to high school with who’s married now. And it’s her tweet and it’s like, “Marriage is hard.” She’s been married for three weeks. It’s just these people…

H: They’re like, “The ups and downs.” I’m like, “Who cheated?” Just tell us who cheated, give me the tea if you’re going to do it. And we stopped posting together because I actually really wanted to protect him, because he did a favor. He put himself out there, got judged in every sense of the word, and I mean, people were calling him old. He’s 46.

J: Calm down.

H: And I was like, “He has a beach house in Westhampton, shut the f*ck up.” So we stopped posting and then Deuxmoi got a blind item that we broke up, and I’m literally at a Verizon store trying to fix my phone from a ski weekend with him that I dropped my phone, which sounds so annoying. But this is f*cking crazy. If you’re not posting all the time, people think there’s problems in your relationship. And it’s actually, we were healing the trauma we went through.

J: Yeah. And also, oh my God. Imagine being the person who was, they haven’t posted in awhile; I’m going to Deuxmoi this.

H: Literally it’s f*cking insane. And then for my wedding also, the first post I did was just me because I’m decentering men for my life always. And people are, how could she not post him? And I’m, actually he was asleep and I just wanted to run his photos by him first. And this is my getting ready photo.

J: Yeah. Also get over it.

H: But stop normalizing the idea that when you’re in a relationship, you become just a promotion in your relationship. I also learned as someone who did reality TV, and if you have a following, you start to get high off of the idea of how people view your relationship.

J: Yeah. Oh. No, no, no, no, no.

H: When I was filming, I was in a romantic thing where there’s lights, there’s cameras, there’s producers being you guys are so cute together. People are becoming obsessed with you guys. I hate when people come…

J: So you were single when you started the show?

H: Yeah. That’s why it was ideal. I was single, 26. Let’s go. But when people comment on celebrity breakups being like, “I don’t believe in love anymore.” I’m always thinking you don’t know anything about how their relationship was and probably the majority of it was their manager hooked them up together because it was good for PR. So let’s stop saying we don’t believe in love because Channing Tatum got a divorce.

J: Yeah. It’s really wild to see people the way that people invest their entire identities into people they’ve never f*cking met.

H: But I also think it’s so toxic to be posting how great your relationship is. And that’s why then one day they’re like, “We’re not together.” And everyone’s like, “I don’t believe in love.” And it’s just like, yeah, because that wasn’t their relationship they were showing.

J: Yeah. No.

H: At all. So it’s really toxic.

J: It’s full lose-lose. It’s full lose-lose to post your relationship online.

H: Oh my God. So that’s why even on TikTok I’m like, “Babe, let’s do TikTok together.” And he’s like, “Honestly, no.” And part of me is thinking that’d be such good content, but he’s always like, “It just opens the door for things we don’t need, and your TikToks are fine without me.” And I’m, honestly it’s so much better I’m not with a guy who’s using me for content.

J: I know. When I see couples make Instagram content, or not Instagram, TikTok content — and if you are listening to this and you’ve done that, I’m sorry — but I do feel like I’m watching someone cross a line that can’t be uncrossed and I’m like just stop.

H: I could see it being fun for the beginning where you do an accidental funny video with them.

J: That’s different but then the second…

H: Then they become a thing. And then what do you think? You wake up and it’s like, “Babe, babe, can you do this, babe? You need to get this, babe. Do it again.” The fights that must happen.

J: That cursed shot that is so fake that you always see. And it’s always them approaching the guy from the back while he’s sitting on a white couch on a phone and it’s like, “Babe,” and then he turns. Every TikTok that starts that way, I’m like, “This is so cursed.”

H: I actually do want it. I want someone to do a reality show of these TikTok couples of what’s actually behind the scenes of it or one of these famous mommy bloggers of what it is actually like. Like, “Oh, you made your baby, how many times did you make your baby do that to get the shot?”

J: I would watch a mommy blogger reality show in two seconds.

H: The second it’s over, she’s like, “You’re so f**cking lazy. All I need is you for two minutes.” I just think they’re monsters in real life. Because also think of fitness bloggers. They finish doing their fitness thing, and they go Juul. It’s all fake.

J: When I look at fitness people, do people understand how dehydrated you have to be for your abs to pop like that?

H: Oh my God.

J: These people can’t drink water.

H: They’re the before of when girls show when they were really skinny being like, “This is my darkest time.” And I’m like, “Okay.” And then we’re following all these girls.

J: But we never f*cking learn. I still…

H: We don’t learn.

J: Every person, so many hot people will come out 15 pounds heavier looking gorgeous, being like, “Hey, I actually almost died and was miserable. That’s how I looked like this.” And then…

H: I was really close to death.

J: And then I will scroll two pages up and see a different guy with abs and be, “He has a better life than me.” And it’s like, “No, he doesn’t.”

H: We don’t learn.

J: We cannot learn.

H: Well, it’s even the media.

J: We’re poisoned.

H: Remember when they were like, “How could they do this to Britney?” And the next article is, “Kim Kardashian looks fat on a beach.” We just don’t learn.

J: We don’t.

H: We don’t f*cking learn.

J: We truly don’t learn. It’s so crazy how integrated all the sh*t is.

H: I think I also just lost trust in the media, people, everything. So then once you have no expectations for the things around you, it’s sad for a while, but then you start to see where the good energy is.

J: Yeah.

H: I just was very naive. I was very naive in the industry. I was like, “It’s going to be just so fun and I have good intentions,” and no, once there’s money involved, anyone will f*ck you. “Mo’ money, mo’ problems.” Biggie was right.

J: What do you do for, where are you going for when you’re not working, when you don’t have spots? What is exciting to you for a night out? Is it a night in, what are you doing for joy?

H: Oh good, good question. Good question. I really love doing nothing. I actually have a fetish for it, a kink. Because I think my whole life I had to practice and do stuff. So I have this obsession with things like, “Oh, I have nothing for four hours.” I do love, I’m an eater. I’m half Italian. I love to just order tons of Thai, tons of Indian, lots of sushi.

J: She’s a delivery queen.

H: Delivery queen!

J: Wait, can you name your spots? Just because I think the New York listeners will appreciate?

H: Honestly, I go for more authentic Mexican, not the fancy one. Go for the one, I mean it’s not real authentic. It’s fully Americanized enchiladas, but just tons of cheese. Cheap. I want the local Thai spots. I want the local Indian spots. That’s my thing, I want diarrhea afterwards or it didn’t hit hard enough. I love the food coma.

J: Yeah.

H: I think it is definitely an emotional eating. I feel complete and heavy on the couch and I have my cat. That’s the problem. When you have a cat and they start purring and falling asleep on you, you are not going anywhere.

J: The OG weighted blanket is a purring cat.

H: Yes, but I do have to say, I did have a very epic bachelorette party and I did not expect it because I’m not a big partier. And it was the most incredible weekend of my life.

J: Walk me through it.

H: Okay. I’m going to tell all the girlies, all the guyglies, the gayglies what to do if you’re in Miami.

J: Wait, I actually want this because my boyfriend really wants to go to Miami and I find it very overwhelming to even approach.

H: I had so much anxiety going into my bachelorette party because I’m forcing my friends to go somewhere to party with me. What if I get too drunk the first night and f*ck up? What if I can’t hang? There was so much anxiety. We stayed at the Goodtime Hotel, which I loved because the rooms are a little small, but it’s good aesthetic and an amazing pool vibe. When you’re planning a bachelorette or just a weekend, don’t plan too much sh*t during the day. Let the day take you where you want to take it. Some days you’ll have energy, some days you won’t. See what you want to do. Lay at the pool, go shopping, whatever, and then always have a good dinner spot and a going out plan. So I think that gave everyone chill vibes. We’re not doing a boat at 10 a.m. We’re not. Okay?

J: No. No!

H: So first night we went to Swan, which we love the energy. It’s very outdoorsy, “FernGully” vibe.

J: Okay. I love. Adult rainforest cafes.

H: Yes. You felt like you were not in New York City anymore. That’s what I wanted to feel. And it was good. Espresso Martinis flowing. Then I go to E11EVEN, which is a strip club that is not too strippy. It’s very party vibe, and strippers just happened to be there. We got a great table. I was getting drunk where a girl was just putting vodka in my mouth and I easily succumb to peer pressure. Because so I did, I had an old-school puke with my-knees-on-the- tile-in-the-bathroom moment and then immediately popped right back out. Then Ja Rule was in the place, and we’re like “Yay.” And then he jumps on stage, takes his shirt off, and loves performing. We’re rapping to his face, making eye contact. It was the most incredible night of my life.

J: I’m so jealous.

H: And we wore feathers, feather outfits the whole time. I like picking a theme that lets people do what they want with it. I hate people feeling uncomfortable with a theme moment. So I just had feathers and let everyone do what they wanted.

J: Feathers is a fun theme.

H: Especially because it’s trendy now. So the next day everyone slept in, rolled into the pool. Let people know I’m at the pool if you want.

J: No pressure.

H: Got some quesadillas, relaxed at the pool, peed in the pool. Did my thing, got some photos. Then the next night, the next day we did, at 5 o’clock, go on a boat.

J: Great.

H: Took us to Kiki on the River.

J: Great.

H: Which was where we ordered seafood towers, which they say is it’s the bottle service type moment of a seafood place.

J: That’s actually so true. A seafood tower is the bottle service of a seafood restaurant.

H: They say my friend, Andrew Collin, joked that fajitas are fully what it’s to have a bottle moment at a Mexican restaurant. Did you not get enough attention as a child? Also, why do they have to be so aggressive and loud?

J: What was happening specifically, specifically in the Applebee’s kitchen? Because the Applebees fajita comes out, I’m like, “What?”

H: Why do you have to feel unsafe when you’re eating it?

J: Why am I hearing one across the restaurant?

H: Yeah. Why is there a siren every time someone gets a fajita? So we got seafood towers. We also got, what’s it called? The smokey things?

J: Hookah?

H: Hookah. Which I don’t even know how to smoke, but there’s something fun about it.

J: Also hookah is so bad for you.

H: Apparently it’s bad, but it’s fun flavors. And then I don’t even know how to inhale it. And then some girls look so sexy when they’re inhaling it, and I just look like I’m giving the worst blow job in history, biting on it. And yeah, I’m just choking on it, whatever, but it was fun vibes. And then we start dancing on the table. I think it’s Middle Eastern.

J: Okay.

H: We started dancing on the table, and that was amazing. Then the final night we got sushi, I forget where, but it doesn’t matter. And then walking out, there was a car, a van, a full kidnappy-type van, but it had music inside. So we wanted to get kidnapped. We paid them $200. Go in and it was just playing music. You felt like you were in a limo, but it wasn’t a limo, and then got home and just hung out in the Goodtime Hotel in pajamas and just played stupid games. Some girl was like, “Oh my God in Bible camp, we used to play this game,” and we’re like, “Let’s play it,” and just had the best rest of the night. But those are the places we went to. And it just had a good communal vibe because bachelorettes could be super culty. I have a whole bit about it where you have too much power. People lose tons of money. And…

J: It’s really, really, I mean weddings in general, the amount of money that people spend on them? And the amount people are forced to spend to go to them.

H: But then it’s not even for you, the wedding. It becomes something for other people. No one’s happy at the end of it.

J: No, 100 percent.

H: I have a theory that weddings are cheugy, but I’m not going to push it too hard because it’s also because Gen Zs haven’t gotten married yet.

J: It is innately cheugy by being…

H: It has to be cheugy.

J: Yeah. Oh I’ve never thought about what the Gen Z wedding will look like.

H: I’m excited to see how they’re going to change the traditions. Because the traditions are literally like, “We’re giving the daughter away and you get her dowry” and I’m like, “I make more money than you. What are we doing?”

J: What are we doing?

H: Yeah.

J: It’s really, it is also one of those things where I always describe it as, have you ever been to a wedding where I’m the theme of this wedding is wedding? Do you know what I mean?

H: Yeah. The whole Pinterest thing was fun, but TikToks take it to a new level. And at first I was like, “I’m chill,” but now there’s so many cool aesthetics. And I did this very at first I said, I don’t want an aesthetic.

J: Your wedding looked sick. I will tell you that.

H: Oh my God, thank you. I really went for it. This is my aesthetic. I did garden party, Brooklyn on the beach, Tulum, human sacrifice, seance vibes, and they f*cking nailed it. I had help just, I needed help.

J: 100 percent.

H: A wedding planner, which was great. But I do think that I’m excited to see how the Gen Zs do it. And even you think of gay marriages, it’s all based off of the original religious wedding.

J: Exactly.

H: So it’s basically just a watered-down religious wedding. And I think we need, instead of watering it down, we need new traditions.

J: 100 percent. The only wedding traditions I’ve ever really been like, “I like these, keep these,” are the Jewish ones, to be honest.

H: Yeah.

J: I think a lot of the Jewish ones are really nice because they’re not focused on sucking Christ’s d*ck and then giving away…

H: Well, when people do they do the Corinthians quote and then…

J: Wait, can I just say, I literally lost, sorry not to interrupt you, but I just am still processing this. I have a brother who’s much younger than me, and he graduated the 8th grade three weeks ago, and he went to Catholic school. So I went back to Vermont for the graduation, and one of these little boys gets up on stage and goes, “A letter from Paul to the Corinthians,” and I’m like, “At a graduation?” And then this 14-year-old boy had to be like, “Love is patient, love is kind,” and I’m losing my mind. I don’t need to hear Paul of the Corinthians right now.

H: It’s insane. Can then they just talk wedding quotes in general when they’re just saying words and no one’s listening and just love this commitment. And you’re just like…

J: It’s also, these people go up on these, people in their wedding speeches are like, “I will be there for you through everything.” And I’m like, “What are you expecting to happen? You live in SF, and one of you works in tech and the other person works in marketing. I don’t understand.” You’re like, “No matter what happens, I will be there to defend you.” From literally who? I don’t get it. These people’s speeches. And, wait, this other thing I’ve noticed recently, this other thing I’ve noticed recently…

H: If your boss doesn’t give enough vacation days off.

J: Have you also noticed this trend? Sometimes the dads, the father of the bride will, if they ever give a speech…

H: Yeah.

J: Sometimes we’ll be at a wedding and the father of the groom will be, or no, the father of the bride will be like, “Tim, Hannah didn’t know who the f*ck she was before she met you.” And it’s like…

H: Oh my God. Some of them are so sexist.

J: “My daughter was a knockout mess, living in a gutter before she met you.” I’m like, “Can you literally not?”

H: I got so mad because the girl is f*cking awesome. And they just talked about the guy being so successful. He’s so awesome. And the girl, they’re always like, “She’s so pretty. When I met her, I thought she was so beautiful. She’s so kind.” I’m always like “That b*tch has a career too.”

J: Yeah, shut up.

H: They tried to put it in the Disney prince and princess mentality, which is so f*cked up in general. Mine was a lot of speeches where Des went first, my husband, and he murdered, the laughs per minute were insane. He even joked because I was supposed to go after him.

J: Were you pissed?

H: And I kept looking at my phone. He’s like, “She’s not listening because she’s preparing for her speech” and I’m like, “Touche.” And then I went on and I purposely, you have to slow the momentum.

J: Yeah.

H: People are, is she bombing? Is she bombing? And then I got an applause break. So I won.

J: Oh that’s a winner.

H: So I won the wedding and that was all I wanted. Also sometimes I feel like when the dads talk, it’s like, “She’s daddy’s little girl.” And even the whole dad dance thing, me and my dad are best friends and just sh*t on each other. And he quit halfway through the father-daughter dance. He just stopped dancing. I’m like, “You have to keep dancing.”

J: No.

H: Oh, it’s just so f*cking weird. The whole “Daddy’s giving me away.” I actually forgot to kiss my parents when they walked me down the aisle. Because I was like, “Where do I put the flowers?” Thank you.

J: Yeah. All of that sh*t is so bizarre.

H: I just think it’s so, I even said I was like, “Is the Wedding March, if I did that song going back, is that anti-feminist?” I don’t want it to be an anti-feminist anthem, but you have to just make it for yourself. And a lot of the time, if the parents are paying for the wedding, it’s just about them. Which is so funny. Because all the friends are like, “This sucks.”

J: I know I’ve been to weddings that were, I went to one wedding that all of a sudden took this incredibly patriotic turn, and everyone from New York was like… No one knew what to do. And you just had to be like, “Yeah, the parents are paying for it. So the parents…”

H: Let’s take shots for America today.

J: Essentially, just like, “Okay.” I’m always so stressed because I just would talk sh*t about all the weddings I’ve been to all the time. But they are also my friends who I deeply love.

H: I know.

J: And I loved all your weddings, but there’s also funny… The thing about them is no matter even the best weddings I’ve been to. No, actually I can think of a couple weddings where there was nothing to sh*t on, but it’s, there’s just always something that everyone took so seriously that when you zoom out of it, you’re like, “This is dumb.”

H: Yeah.

J: Do you know what I mean?

H: We also come from a different lifestyle where all we do every day is trying to get attention mainly on ourselves. And I realized I hate happy birthday attention. And people start singing. You don’t know what to do with your hands. I like to be like, “Do we like her?” And then I have to earn it by saying something witty. That’s what I get off on. The whole forcing everyone to look at you and give you attention, I actually hated it so much. And whenever someone was giving a speech about me, I was like, “Are people enjoying this? Are they having fun?” I didn’t give a f*ck.

J: Right. Well because it also doesn’t feel… All of it, it’s just ritualistic.

H: Yes. But I do have to say for people listening, being like, “Oh my gosh, should I not get married or whatever?” I was sitting, I called it the green room, but it was a bridal suite. I was in the green room and I was like, “Okay, I can walk down the aisle and do this. I perform in front of hundreds of people. It’s fine.” And when I got there, I actually got adrenaline. I got really nervous. Because that is where you feel the gravity of the situation.

J: Totally.

H: And actually since getting married, I felt a security in our relationship that’s been really nice. And the actual ritual is beautiful, but there are a lot of details that need to evolve.

J: Yeah, absolutely. I’m not totally anti-marriage.

H: The after party because I know this is going out podcast. The after party was f*cking lit because you don’t have to, we all went to this place John Scott’s across the street in Westhampton, which is the most fun just local beach bar, and everyone went and then there’s none of the, “Oh, you have to do this at this time and this speech is happening.” We just got f*cking hammered.

J: Just rip it.

H: And also wedding dresses are super uncomfortable so I got to switch into my second comfy outfit.

J: Everyone needs to do this.

H: Put on my kitten heels, and then my friend lifted me up to bring me to go on the bar and I’m not on the bar girly.

J: Yeah.

H: But then once you’re on the bar, you become that person. I’m not going to half-ass once I’m on the bar, so then I was on the bar dancing, a Ja Rule song came on to me and my girls were, and we’re going f*cking hard. And that was the best part. I was pouring drinks.

J: Ja Rule officiated your wedding.

H: Ja Rule. I was bamboozled, and Ja Rule rocked the wedding. It was so fun. My husband actually had to take me off the bar because he wanted to have sex that night. And he knew I, at 2 a.m., didn’t want to leave the bar.

J: Yeah. You were, no, this is…

H: It was the best time. So have an after party for sure.

J: I love that. Okay. Wait, pivoting slightly. I’m curious because you grew up in New York and you still live here. Do you have restaurants from childhood that are still restaurants that you love?

H: Oh my God. Good question. I grew up in Park Slope, and the cool thing about it is the block. I love that you asked me about food. It’s my favorite thing to talk about.

J: I want to talk restaurants now.

H: Yeah, the block I grew up on had a Korean restaurant on the corner, Mexican restaurant on the corner across the street, and a Szechuan Delight Chinese place. They also had Thai on that block as well. Great Italian. I just grew up…

J: Is this the block… Did you live off 4th Ave?

H: I lived on 7th Ave and Garfield place.

J: Okay.

H: But my mom did teach. She was a principal of a school on 5th Avenue.

J: Okay.

H: So you don’t have to go anywhere. Everything is in a 10-block radius. Your schools, your restaurants. And also at a very young age, I had a palate for every single cuisine. I’m like, “I’m in the mood for Thai tonight.” And it’s like, “But you’re 2 years old.” But I’m very specific about what a Pad Thai tastes like. And I’m very, oh yeah, and I have a great…

J: Oh were you so annoying in Wisconsin? Wait.

H: Oh, I did not eat that ketchup pasta in Wisconsin. Absolutely not. I just, but no, but Wisconsin also is the best with dairy. So the cheese curds.

J: The cheese curd.

H: If you order a Bloody Mary in Wisconsin, there’s a chicken in it. A full chicken. Everyone, Google Wisconsin Bloody Mary. There’s a cheeseburger, there’s cheese curds. There’s everything in it. It’s a full meal. Also, I’ve never finished a Bloody Mary in my life. I have two sips and then I’m like, “That was great.” Actually, my first job at 16 was hosting at a Korean barbecue place that the chef was really, really prestigious. And I was 16-years-old hosting. There wasn’t any technology and they got a New York Times write-up that week.

J: Oh f*ck.

H: And Manhattanites are coming in being like, “Where the f-? Oh, how long is the wait?” And I’m like, “Two and a half hours.” And they’re getting mad and all this stuff. But it was a very fun experience.

J: I don’t think people understand how in the trenches being a host of a restaurant is.

H: I had to do a full system with, and this is what I learned, also. The hostesses who actually aren’t that great are the ones that will just be an hour because that’s easy. You under-promise, over-deliver, where my goal, even though I was getting paid nothing, was to seat as many people that night. So I would literally be like, “Hey, I have a two top in 20 minutes. I can squeeze the three of you in or you can wait another…”

J: Yeah.

H: This amount of time. And I had a really good system where I knew really exactly how long people would be.

J: So you sound like you were the dream host.

H: I literally…

J: People still lose their minds.

H: Oh no. You’re going to lose your mind. Because, God forbid, this is what happens: A table will be done and then they’re chatting, they’re chatting, chatting, chatting. They’re not leaving. And you didn’t factor that into your time, and then they’re mad at you, but those people have been sitting with a check for a long time. You’ll give them some eyes, every now and then, someone would freak out. But then every now and then someone would give me a tip like “Hey, I could tell you’re…” Oh I would fully start busing tables because it’d be so busy.

J: You got to move.

H: Oh, we were moving and grooving. So now I judge hosts when hosts would be like, “Oh it’s an hour.” What is it really?

J: Or are you not playing your game?

H: Because they’re afraid that they’re getting in trouble. But tell me what it really is, because we’re going to walk. You think it could be 30? It’s okay. If the people stay, that’s not your fault. I’m so into that. Park Slope has changed so much since growing up there. But I do have to say for everyone who likes to go out east in the Hamptons and party, in terms of restaurants, Shelter Island is where I grew up a lot and Vine Street Cafe is the most incredible dinner. Get the calamari salad. Sunset Beach is where everyone goes to party. And Salts is a great place where actually with Luann, from the “Housewives,” name-dropping, she has a place in Sag Harbor and she boated and you could park in front of with your boat, whatever they call it…

J: Marina?

H: Yeah. In front of the restaurant. You just go off and they have this shipwreck bar, which is an old boat that they turned into a bar.

J: F*ck yeah.

H: So that’s lit. It just takes a lot. You have to get a ferry to get to Shelter Island. And then at “Summer House,” the main places we partied were Southampton in a place called Southampton Social. We were just there.

J: Can you ever go back there emotionally?

H: So I’m actually really good friends with the manager.

J: Oh, sick.

H: He went to my wedding, so I’ll go.

J: Let’s, okay. Wait, but let’s make this very clear. I cannot think of a better testament to your character and who you are as a person if, of the people filming that show there at that restaurant, you are the one that’s friends with the manager. You know what I mean? That…

H: My closest friends were people in production and I had too much trust in a lot of production, but I love shooting the sh*t. Because I also have a producer mindset. I was fascinated with the creation of the show, but yeah, the manager. I never forget that they would hook us up and we would have so much fun with him and he would make sure that we were treated well. And then we continued being friends off-season, but I do occasionally walk into places that I’ve filmed. And sometimes I’m like, “Oh, I miss filming. I had a fun night that night.” And sometimes I walk in being like, “Oh God, this was a terrible, terrible, terrible time.” But you literally are in a restaurant, everyone’s getting drunk, and you guys are getting into a fight in the restaurant and it’s…

J: And you’re also lit, right?

H: Yeah. The funny party stories when I was single, they love when I was single because I’m funny when I’m flirting and they’d be like “Go flirt with people.” So you’d just walk into the bar and you’d make eyes with a cute guy. And then you’d start walking towards them and imagine a girl walking towards you with a camera guy behind her and a guy holding a light. So these dudes would just run. They would just be absolutely not. Or they’d talk to me, and then they’d have to sign a release and they’re like, “Yeah, I’m in finance. I don’t want to be seen on this sh*t.” So you would try hard to get conversations, but you also feel like you’re using people for your own attention. It’s very toxic, and I didn’t really like that at all.

J: Yeah. That sounds crazy.

H: Or the dudes that did want to talk to you were the worst.

J: It’s self-selecting into the demons.

H: That’s why a lot of reality TV stars are single, or they settle for people they’re on the show with.

J: That makes so much sense.

H: Because you feel comfortable with them, and then you also have that fake mentality of “People love us.”

J: Woo.

H: Dark.

J: That’s really intense.

H: Yeah.

J: That’s, I’m glad you’re out of it. Honestly.

H: Well the universe was like, “You’re done.”

J: Yeah.

H: I didn’t have a choice. The universe really showed me that I need to start a different path, but I also love changing my paths. I love change. I love a breakup. I love getting fired. It’s my thing.

J: You a child of divorce?

H: No.

J: Whoa.

H: My parents got engaged in five months and are obsessed with each other; a very healthy relationship.

J: I can’t imagine what that’s like. That’s the craziest thing I’ve heard in my life.

H: No, they flirt with each other, but I had very high expectations for my own relationships because I saw that.

J: I just pictured if I saw my parents flirting with each other, and I just pictured the back of my head exploding.

H: Like that bird in “Shrek.”

J: Truly. Yes. Just two little legs left. I could not imagine my parents, the idea of them flirting, is so upsetting to me.

H: But also my parents were very, their relationship is so simple. They’re not big drinkers. They’re very, “Get home from work, turn on the Knicks game, get Chinese takeout,” and that’s it. So I think that’s how I envision my life. I actually think the person you’re with should be the person you could just talk on the couch with for forever. I’m not flashy with my relationships. I mean, I want a tall, handsome man, but I’m not trying to go on these crazy vacations or be big partiers. I think a lot of relationships bond this way.

J: How did you guys meet?

H: I actually saw him at The Cellar six years ago before I was doing comedy and thought he was cute, but he lived in Ireland, and then during the pandemic he moved back and had added me, because he saw me through that I was a comic. Never asked me on his pod. Rude. That’s why I thought he was adding me. And then eventually was like, “Oh I see you’re out East. You want to get coffee?” And that was it.

J: Wow.

H: It was very straightforward.

J: Coffee date.

H: Yeah. Because he doesn’t drink.

J: Okay. Bless.

H: He’s sober. I do think some people it’s like, “Do you like them or do they enable your drinking?”

J: Yeah. Oof.

H: And that was heavy what I just said.

J: Yeah.

H: But it’s something that’s important. And I find, so I go on a party cut podcast and I’m like, “Sobriety?” I mean people are experimenting with sobriety a lot now.

J: Oh I think it’s a big conversation. And we’ve talked about it a lot on this show and it’s, I just think that, so I like to talk about it in the sense that I don’t think they’re intrinsically linked and I do drink and I do go out a lot, but I don’t think that is inherent to what I love about going to a restaurant, hang out with a bunch of people.

H: I also don’t for me because I don’t have an addiction to alcohol. I just, it’s not a part of me, it’s not, I don’t love it. So I’m not, I don’t say I’m sober ever. I drink when I want to.

J: Which I think sounds really healthy. So this has been heaven.

H: Oh my God. So much fun.

J: I’ve enjoyed every second and now I like to end it by planning a night out.

H: Oh my God. I’m obsessed. Us together? Oh my God. This is so fun. Okay. We start with good food.

J: Yeah.

H: We start… What kind of food do you like to eat?

J: So if I’m planning a night out and we’re doing food, my No. 1 goal is to negotiate delicious versus heartburn.

H: True. How heavy do we want to go?

J: Yeah. So you said Szechuan and I really perked up, but I’m also, do I want to barf fire on a bartender later?

H: Okay. I know what we’re doing. I know what we’re doing.

J: Tell me.

H: So we’re going to Chinatown. There’s this place called Peking Duck House. And we are going to get a Peking duck.

J: Yes.

H: And it’s heavy, but you have fig sauce. You have their pancake.

J: Yep.

H: The duck. And it’s not going to be too heavy because we’re sharing it.

J: Yeah.

H: We’re going to have a couple and then we’re going to do some sake and then we go out somewhere downtown. Where do we go?

J: I really, and I haven’t been there in a long time. I really like Apotheke on Pell street. Do you know that? It’s a speakeasy on Pell?

H: I love a speakeasy.

J: And it’s in Chinatown. So let’s go there.

H: I love that so much.

J: And then we’re down there and then if it gets later and we randomly feel like it we could go dancing.

H: I love a really sh*tty place to go dancing called Niagara. Have you been? Disgusting, truly disgusting.

J: One time…

H: But they play ‘70s music.

J: One time my dad came and visited and tried to keep up with me and my friends partying. And I have this photo of us in the Niagara photo booth, me and my dad, that is so cursed.

H: Was I just there for ‘70s night, or do they always play old-school music?

J: I don’t know. Because I have not gone back in a long time.

H: Yeah. They have a disco ball and they were playing the Bee Gees and I was like “This is f*cking sick,” and it was gross and so much fun.

J: Yeah. I also recently went to this place called Joyface. Have you been there?

H: No.

J: They have a disco ball and it’s really dance-y and I had a f*cking blast, so we could also go there.

H: Okay, okay. I’m open to that. I’m also not when I’m going out, I’m not the mom. I’m not the planner. If the energy is good, I’m just down to clown, or I’m that person that’s like, “How do we get out? How easy is this to get out?”

J: Yeah. I’m not trying to do anything that feels like we’re going to get stuck.

H: But to get me out, start with eating.

J: Perfect.

H: And let the night go where we want.

J: Okay, perfect. Well see you in Chinatown.

H: And we’ll pop our p*ssies.

J: Yes.

H: I love shaking my ass at the end of the night.

H: I can’t wait.

J: Thank you so much for doing the show.

H: Thank you so much for having me, Jake.

J: This was heaven. Bye.

H: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to “Going Out With Jake Cornell.” If you could please go and rate and review us on whatever you’re listening to this on, that would be really gorgeous for me in a huge way, so thank you.

And now, for some credits. “Going Out With Jake Cornell” is recorded in New York City and is produced by Keith Beavers and Katie Brown. The music you’re hearing is by Darbi Cicci. The cover art you’re probably looking at was photographed by M. Cooper and designed by Danielle Grinberg. And a special shout-out to VinePair co-founders Adam Teeter and Josh Malin for making all of this possible.