This year’s rosé season will be the strangest in memory for many of us. With sidewalk cafes and restaurant patios shuttered around the country and world, sipping rosé will be an at-home experience for many of us, likely for a good portion of this year’s warmest months. Yet that doesn’t mean that there aren’t great rosés to seek out, and memorable experiences to be had with them. That’s why VinePair has compiled our list of the 25 Best Rosés for 2020. As with any of our lists, there are lots of stories behind the scenes. (To start, these wines were tasted, reviewed, and selected while we all followed social distancing measures.)

That’s the topic for this week’s VinePair podcast, where co-hosts Adam Teeter, Erica Duecy, and Zach Geballe are joined by VinePair’s tastings editor Keith Beavers and staff writer Tim McKirdy to talk about our favorite wines on the list; why southern Italy is rivaling southern France as a source for great rosé; and a few tips for how best to enjoy rosé while social distancing.

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Adam: From Brooklyn, New York, I’m Adam Teeter.

Erica: From Connecticut, I’m Erica Duecy.

Zach: And in Seattle, Washington, I’m Zach Geballe.

A: And this is the VinePair podcast. Guys, I’m looking out my window, it’s a gorgeous day, and I think it’s the perfect time to start talking about rosé. I can’t wait to get into this. But before we talk about rosé, how are you guys holding up?

E: I’m holding up pretty well. In Connecticut, there’s a huge amount of wildlife here! We’ve seen coyotes, deer, and turkeys. Every day, I wake up to something new and exciting, so it’s a lot different than being in the city.

A: That’s awesome. Zach?

Z: We’ve not quite the same amount of wildlife, although there is apparently a large community of herons that have started nesting in my neighborhood, which is cool because they are very large and majestic birds. I was walking with my dog and my son the other day and an enormous shadow went overhead, and it was actually kind of frightening. But it was also very exciting to see. So that’s my wildlife story for the day.

A: I’ve got a wildlife story: A bird flew into my apartment. In this room that I’m working in, there are no screens on the windows and I was on the phone with Josh, the co-founder of VinePair with me, and I had the window open. A bird just flew right on in. And he was hanging out! Then I freaked out, so he freaked out — or she freaked out — I don’t want to gender the bird. And so, I’m thinking, “Get out of the apartment!” I had to finally find the Swiffer, and start trying to shoo the bird out with the Swiffer. It was a really pretty bird, too! I think people probably are listening to my story and thinking, “Oh man, Adam had a pigeon fly in his apartment.” But it wasn’t a pigeon! It was a really beautiful red bird and I thought maybe this is a robin or a… sign. I don’t think it was a sign, it was just a bird that got confused. But it made it out very safe, so I guess I have a wildlife story as well.

E: Nice!

Z: Did you at least pour it a drink or something?

A: No, I had to get it out fast. It was probably in the apartment for three or five minutes, but it was a scary three or five minutes. I was thinking: What if this bird just lives here forever now? What if this is it’s home, and I can’t get it to leave?

Z: Yeah, it has to quarantine with you for 14 days now.

E: Oh, boy!

A: Seriously. And then I thought: Now I have bird flu. There we go, bird flu.

Z: I have a question for you guys before we talk rosé, because the day after this podcast goes out is Cinco de Mayo, and we haven’t really talked a lot of tequila on this podcast, other than Adam and I doing a tequila and mezcal podcast a while back. But are you guys going to set aside Tuesday for drinking some tequila? Or other agave spirits?

E: I am. Now that we’ve been up here in Connecticut, I usually don’t have the chance to have dinner with my kids, but we have actually been doing taco Tuesday and my kids love it!

Z: There you go!

A: Are you serious?

E: Seriously, we actually have been doing it. We are going to have our in-laws over, who are now sort of co-potting it, and I am going to make Tommy’s Margaritas. We’re going to have these lovely cocktails and hopefully it’s going to be sunny, and we can all sit outside and have a little bit of a fun, festive, socially distanced little Cinco de Mayo party ourselves.

A: I plan to also make some sort of Mexican-inspired dishes. Not tacos, just because I don’t have the ingredients. But I’m going to make this black bean bake that was in The New York Times recently. It’s quite good. And then, I’m making Margaritas too. For sure I’m doing it! There’s nothing else to do, Zach, you have got to celebrate the little things… Like a holiday that actually has no significance whatsoever and that was co-opted by the marketing communities, including Corona, in order to sell more Mexican beer. But hey, I’m here for it.

Z: I will be drinking probably some combination of tequila and mezcal myself, so, I’m no different.

A: Well, let’s get into this rosé list. Zach, you know we created the list. Unfortunately, since you’re in Seattle, you are not a part of the tasting panel, so we’re going to let you play host on this one. We really start our top 25 rosés every year around this time. It’s one of our most read articles of the year. It receives lots of attention from various parts of the industry, and we’re super excited to put this together this year. Let’s get into it.

Z: Yeah, absolutely! Well, first off I think we have a couple of guests/friends/co-workers to welcome. Tim McKirdy and Keith Beavers are also a big part of putting this list together, from what I understand. Gentlemen, how are you doing?

Tim: Doing great, thanks, Zach. I guess like yourselves, I’m just kind of making do right now. I’m definitely looking forward to Cinco de Mayo myself as well. Having a bit of tequila, having a bit of mezcal. I’m just adapting to the new norm, as it were.

Keith: Yeah, same here, man. I’m out here in brick city – Newark, N.J.

A: Brick city.

K: That’s how we call it here in Newark. I forgot about Cinco de Mayo, but I will say that I just happen to have this bottle of tequila that I’ll be drinking on Cinco de Mayo. It just happens to be here.

A: “I forgot about Cinco de Mayo?” What day is it, Keith?

K: Tuesday.

Z: OK, lets refocus ourselves just a little bit. You can find the list on, of course, and we’ll link to the top 25 list in the description for this podcast as well. Without going through the entire list, I’m just curious for each of you, since all of you were involved in putting this list together. What was your favorite wine on the list? Erica, let’s start with you.

E: OK. I was really excited by the rosés from southern Italy, and my favorite rosé on the list this year is Planeta’s Sicilian rosé. What’s appealing to me about the Sicilian and southern Italian rosés this year was that they’re brighter in color, they have very vibrant flavors, and they have something of a bolder flavor profile than rosés from Provence. While I love a Provençal style, I was just really entranced by the layers of flavors. Not just fruit but also savory and mineral, and the Planeta, which came in at number three, was a perfect example of this. This had some fruit flavors, some strawberry and guava, and then some hints of savory green olive — really some complexity there. With the bolder flavors and the brighter color, I just keep thinking of summertime barbecue. Anything that you’ve got on the grill is going to go with this wine, and even better: It’s $16. I’m super excited. All of my favorite wines this year were under $20.

Z: Awesome. Adam, how about you?

A: There was a bunch that I liked. I was lucky that the number one wine I got to taste, and I think that the Peyrassol was pretty amazing. And then, there were a bunch that I got to return to, that have been on the list before, that have continued to be really special, including the Planeta. I do also think I was very impressed by the price. This year, especially the Peyrassol: I was really nervous when I tasted it, that it was going to be super expensive. It just looks kind of pricey, as Provençal, and it’s very well made for Provençal… The kind of trend that we saw in the last two years was that the cheaper wines from Provence that hover around $20 are getting kind of crappy. They’re able to just bank on the Provence name, and the wines aren’t as hot as they have been in the past. This one was amazing, and it looks like Lebron likes it, too. I’m really into that. What up Bronny? Yeah, that’d be my perspective.

Z: Keith, how about you?

K: Man, that’s tough. There were so many of them that I love. Some of them that I’ve been drinking for a long time like the Cirò, the Calabrian rosé. But I’ve got to say the one that really got me, this is going to be a surprise to everybody, was the Adelaida. It is the wildest rosé because it drinks like a red wine. It has a depth and structure to it, because of its higher alcohol it has a perception of depth to it and full bodied-ness that you don’t usually get in a rosé. And for me, I can totally see messing around with some duck breasts with this wine. I mean actually having a meal with this wine and pairing it with a meat. It’s pretty amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever had a rosé that really has that kind of structure to it. It really freaked me out in a good way.

Z: Cool. Tim, how about you?

T: Saving the best for last, huh, Zach?

Z: That is 100% not what I was doing.

A: Oh my God. I knew this was going to happen. I knew this was going to happen. I was warned.

T: My favorite wine from this year: Listening to Erica talk about her wine, we have very similar kind of preferences. Mine was the Gaia “14-18 h” and I am sorry if I am massacring the pronunciation of that. This is a Greek rosé. It’s from Nemea, and this is a producer that’s very renowned. They are known for quality, but they’re also known for doing some interesting things. They have cool things going on with fermentation vessels and aging, and this wine leans into that. The “14-18 h” name: That is the amount of time in hours that the grape skins spend in contact with the must. That produces this profile again that Erica was talking about that’s very bold. It’s very fruity and it’s wonderful with food. I don’t know the next time that I’m going to have a barbecue myself because I live in an apartment in Queens. But if I were having a barbecue grilling something, I’m imagining this wine with grilled octopus. I think that would just be amazing. This is a food wine. This is fish. This is light, charred meat and it’s everything I’m looking for in a rosé.

Z: Awesome.

K: The price is right too, damn!

Z: That was definitely a theme throughout a lot of this. It seems like you guys were excited about a lot of wines at a really affordable price, which has obviously been a selling point for the rosé category in general. Adam, I was curious because one of the things when putting a list like this together is thinking about this balance between what is available and how niche a rosé can be before it’s not going to go to a broader audience.

A: Totally.

Z: What are these wines? How available are they? What are some of the wines on here that you think someone listening to this podcast anywhere in the U.S. should be able to get their hands on?

A: The biggest thing we thought about this year was that because everyone is quarantining, there has been a large drive to e-commerce. Some wines that in the past we would not have thought twice about, we actually did include because they were on that e-commerce tip. As Keith likes to say in some of his reviews: As long as you’re e-commerce savvy, you will be able to do it. So, we did include a lot. All these wines you can find online, if you really want to go grab them. But one of the wines that we were really impressed by that’s available everywhere is Seaglass, and that’s actually the number five rosé on the list. I think Planeta, that’s number three, is also very, very, very well distributed. But Seaglass, I remember when we were looking it up: You can find it at Costco, you can find it at World Market. It’s really an easy wine to find and it was super delicious. And I think it’s 11 bucks. It helped get it into that top position because not only was it great but it was so readily available. That was what we were trying to focus on with this list, and showcase that there’s a lot of amazing rosé out there that is really easy to find. There’s also a lot of rosé out there that’s easy to find that’s really crap, and a lot of those wines didn’t make the list. We tasted hundreds of bottles. But this rosé in particular was very, very high quality for money and being so readily available kicked it up another few notches.

Z: Awesome. So Keith, Erica eluded to this when she was talking about the Planeta rosé, but I’m curious about your thoughts on this. The world of rosé has really evolved and obviously there’s still a lot of the rosés on this list that come from France, particularly from the south of France. But a few wines on here came not just from Italy but a few specifically from the southern part of Italy. I don’t know that people have typically thought of southern Italy as a source for great rosés. What is it about some of these Sicilian and Calabrian rosés that you felt made them stand out this year?

K: The Italians and rosé are not a traditional thing. It all began in Italy because of the popularity of rosé. With the exception of Cerasuolo, which is a traditional rosé made from the Montepulciano grape in Abruzzo. Over the years newer generations have come on to become winemakers, how it happens in Europe, usually it’s handed down to the children. As the children came in with new ideas and more open minds, rosés became more of a thing. If a wine can survive since antiquity in Sicily, Campagna, Calabria, Puglia then making rosé out of it works. It’s just a matter of whether anybody wanted to make it in the first place, and then it’s a matter of how good the winemaker is. But because of that, because of these new generations the rosé of Italy has become a thing now. We have some Pinot Noir. We have a lot of Pinot Noir rosé on this list and if you’re in Sicily and you’re drinking Nerello Mascalese, you know that’s a very Pinot Noir-esque kind of red wine. Making it into rosé kind of makes sense. As far as the wine from Calabria, Gaglioppo is again in that same vein of sort of high- acid, bright-colored, juicy stuff right after maceration so it works. And honestly, I don’t know why they haven’t been doing it because there it’s hot, and there’s a lot of seafood. It just makes sense so it’s great.

Z: Yeah, it’s definitely true. You would think that would’ve been an area where rosé would’ve been already a big part of the culture. OK, so Keith, you mentioned a varietal that now I have to bring up with Tim because antagonizing Tim is apparently one of the themes of this podcast.

A: It’s one of your themes.

Z: You know when you have a rapport with someone, you’ve got to run with it. It’s never like you give me a hard time, Adam, so I don’t know what to say. OK, so Tim, I’ve never been a huge fan of rosés made from Pinot Noirs. That isn’t to say that there haven’t been any that I haven’t liked, but generally speaking I would prefer to drink a red wine made from Pinot Noir or sparkling wine. That rosé just hasn’t done it for me. There are a number of rosés on here made from Pinot Noir, so explain to me what you like about the broader kind of category of Pinot Noir rosé and then pick one that skeptics like me should try and give a second chance to.

T: I will start by saying that I completely understand what you’re saying from a purely theoretical point of view. I get the skepticism towards Pinot Noir rosé. In its red form it’s already “light and refreshing.” That’s not true of every Pinot Noir, right? But it gives that profile, so why do you need to make it into a rosé? And then you have to question if it’s already light in its red form, is it going to be too light on flavor in its rosé form? I understand that from a theoretical aspect. One thing I will say, and I don’t think you’re asking us to defend the list, but one thing about the Pinot Noirs on this year’s list: They offer something that we’re looking for from any wine that’s going to make the list. So, it’s got to have good concentration of flavor. It’s got to be fun and interesting. It’s got to be worth the value for money. One of the things you get with Pinot Noir again as with reds, is you get that refreshing acidity and especially in some of the warmer regions where we’re seeing that there’s quite a few bottles in there from California. So whereby if they’re vinified into red wines, they might be a bit too weighty and not have the acidity that you’d like from a Pinot Noir and expect, in the rosé form, you start to see that. It continues to be refreshing and just delicious. You wanted an example as well. This is from near you: We had the Willakenzie Estate rosé, and that’s from the Willamette Valley in Oregon. I say “near you.” It’s all the Pacific Northwest to me… It’s all relative right now.

Z: Yeah. It’s only a few hundred miles away. It’s close.

A: Yeah, it’s close.

T: I just found that to be nice, round, juicy, around the $20 mark. It’s a little bit more expensive than some people will spend on a rosé, but I thought, 20 bucks, I’ll take it. That’s a good one.

Z: Cool.

A: The Seaglass, Keith and I think it’s Pinot Noir because until this year, they had Pinot Noir on the label, and now they don’t. We’re not sure if it is 100% Pinot Noir. We should probably ask the winemaker, but we think that it is, especially from where it is from in Monterrey.

Z: Maybe Seaglass makes two rosés? I used to buy this when I ran retail and they made a rosé from Pinot Noir, and then they made one that was a Pinot Noir plus maybe some Grenache.

A: Yeah.

Z: I don’t remember specifically. It definitely has Pinot Noir in it, but I don’t think it’s 100%.

A: Yeah. So, that’s a good one to try. There’s a bunch.

T: Long Meadow Ranch: That was another great one as well. That’s $25 bucks as well, so I guess for $5 dollars extra.

K: There’s a wide range. What’s cool about this is there’s a wide range of price within the Pinot Noir spectrum here. From $11 to all the way up. And there’s something that was different. There was something that just popped off in my brain during this tasting about Pinot Noir rosé. There’s this distinct tart, juicy, ripeness to it that doesn’t have the lean concentration of other varieties. There’s a playfulness to Pinot Noir rosé that you don’t really get. Pinot Noir rosé just talks to you saying, “Yo, what’s up? This is going to be fun!”

Z: That is what I don’t like about it.

A: Really?

Z: The sort of bright fruitiness has never been a big appeal for me. But that’s just me. There are certainly great examples. One of the wines on the list that is Pinot Noir-based, the Gran Moraine, is actually a Pinot Noir rosé that I do really like. I really like the wines from Gran Moraine in general.

Z: Let’s talk a little bit about a broader question. As Adam mentioned earlier, we’re in this period of quarantine, and we are all trying to understand what that’s doing to the industry. That’s why we’ve been doing all these Covid-19 conversations and it’s been a focus of this podcast. So Erica, what is happening with rosé this year? Where is consumer interest and demand?

E: We’re seeing a ton of demand. Rosé overall is a juggernaut, and if we look at VinePair’s internal data, which looks at consumer sentiment and purchase intent, rosé is off to an earlier start than usual this year. In March we saw a 19% increase in reader interest compared to the same month last year. And sales also hold up to this story that we’re thinking about. Rosé is the bright spot across the country in the wine space. according to Nielsen data off-premise. When we typically see the strongest sales for rosé in the summer months, the category was already spiking in February, rising 13% in the last 52-week total. That was $583 million in sales for the last running 52 weeks, which is the highest it’s ever been and it’s the strongest growth we’re seeing for any table wine. Consumers are willing to pay more for rosé, according to this data, than reds or whites — an average of $2 more per bottle for rosé. The national averages are $9.89 a bottle for rosé as compared to $7.63 for table wines as a whole. I thought that was fascinating.

A: That is actually super fascinating. I didn’t know that.

E: That data comes off the back of four years of solid growth. So, also looking at Nielsen, off-premise sales of pink wine increased almost 300% between January 2016 and January 2020. Overall, it’s a juggernaut category, it just keeps growing, and not slowing. If anything, it’s accelerating, and it’s finding appeal across all seasons of the year.

Z: That’s exciting! All of us who love wine are happy for any good news in terms of demand and all that. Adam, I’m curious, though: Are we concerned with some of these European rosés as far as like the impact that tariffs might be having on pricing?

A: That’s definitely been brought up. I’ve talked to some importers, distributors and winemakers who’ve said that the tariffs are still obviously an issue. They’re hopeful that the tariffs could be removed especially given what’s happening now with Covid-19. But, I don’t think the consumer’s going to see the tariff. Unfortunately, what’s going to happen is that the distributor or the importer are going to keep eating it. A few big importers that I spoke with last week told me they’re just eating the tariff. Especially when it comes to rosé, because there is, as Erica was saying, such a demand for it that they don’t want to do anything right now in these uncertain times, when these are sales that are booming, to put a brake in front of it. And to have a consumer trip up and say, “Wait so, I used to pay 15 bucks for this wine and now this wine is you know, 20 bucks, nah-uh.” So they’re just eating the tariff. It sucks for a lot of businesses that are still struggling right now but they’ve determined that that’s the only thing to do.

Z: And Erica, is there any risk about not having enough supply? Especially with rosé coming in overseas. I know to some extent I’m wondering if there are… If you’re aware of any challenges like with shipping and all that because of the lockdowns.

E: I think there may be a little bit of challenge, especially if there were wines that were not already on boats when lockdowns went into effect. Depending on what country they were coming from there may be some delays. But what we’re hearing from importers and from producers is that if there’s the demand we will fill that supply. So, they’re saying they’ll do what it takes to make the wines available. And there’s also a lot of wines on this list that are domestic, so there’s not those same logistical issues of shipping overseas. But there may be some issues shipping, across country. But I don’t foresee that being a problem necessarily because there’s just such a huge range of rosés that are out on the market right now.

Z: Cool. Alright, so last talking point here is that obviously, this is going to be the weirdest rosé season that any of have ever experienced.

A: Totally.

Z: I was hoping that each of you guys could share a tip or a thought about some of our standards for how to go enjoy and experience and explore rosé. Maybe later in this year there will be patios, and we’ll be able to go enjoy rosé. Hopefully, certainly before too long we’ll be able to do this all with friends and family at least in a controlled fashion, but it’s going to be different. So, Tim first, let’s start with you in your tiny apartment. How are you going to experience rosé season this year, and do you have any tips for our listeners?

T: Yeah, sure. One tip I would have, that’s not exactly Covid-related, but something that I came across tasting the rosés for this year’s list is that not all rosé is created equal in terms its profile. There are bottles on there that definitely lean more towards white wines in style and the way you should drink them. And there are wines in there that you should maybe consider a bit more like a red wine, and Keith mentioned that earlier. One example of that, the number four wine on the list, Copain — I’m going to butcher this again — Les Voisins. French people, come at me. But that is a rosé that I found to drink like a red. I definitely would say don’t chill some of them too much. You need to taste the wine first, so that you can get some kind of sense, but the tasting notes are in the article as well. This is a wine I would drink slightly warmer than a normal rosé, and I might even decant. I might even have steak with this. Or I would have red meat. I might slice it quite thinly, but it has the structure there to hold up to something like a red wine, as opposed to many other bottles that might be more like whites. So, I would say not all rosé is created equal.

Z: Keith, how about you? Do you have a tip for the listeners?

K: I’m always the kind of person to drink what you want, check it out, get into it, or don’t get into it. Rosé’s the best way to order a bunch and just see what you like. What I take away from this is that there’s a good amount of wine on this list that is affordable. Because affordable rosé can be good and you can start with our list, you can actually order multiple rosés and see what you like. And also, don’t be scared of the screw cap. A screw cap does not define the quality of a wine.

Z: Cool. Adam, how about you? You have a tip?

A: Yes. Figure out how you can drink outside in however way that you can. And also, just don’t forget that the reason this category has exploded is because it’s the first category in a really long time that consumers didn’t feel was pretentious and felt like it was fun (because of all the things Keith and Tim were saying). It feels accessible. It feels at a price point that feels premium but yet not too premium. There’s not a lot of talk about laying it down for 10 years, and then maybe you’ll understand it. This is delicious right now, and so remember that when you go out to drink rosé that the producers have fun making these wines. You’re supposed to have fun drinking these wines. These aren’t supposed to be wines that you get uppity about. Don’t let people talk down to you about rosé. It is a fun category for a reason. Find what you like, and then don’t feel bad about liking what you like.

T: Fun, but serious.

A: Exactly.

Z: And Erica, how about you?

E: I’m along those same lines. I went into this tasting feeling that I probably would not like anything that was under $25, just from where I’ve been drinking wine out at restaurants. I hadn’t ever done a really huge tasting across all the rosé categories. When I was thinking of rosés it was always what you would find at restaurants: Whispering Angel or Miraval, or what have you. Those tend to be the more expensive rosés. What I was completely shocked about is that, of our 25 list, 10 of them came in at under $15 dollars, and most of my favorite bottles were in that group. That was a huge revelation to me. I totally echo what everyone is saying, and what Keith is saying, particularly around: Take some chances and try some different bottles and see what you like. I think you’ll be surprised at the amount of high-quality wines that you’ll find at lower price points.

A: I want to pick up on one other thing that Keith was saying that is really important to remember, which is color. You hear a lot of people talk about how they don’t think rosé is quality unless it’s that salmon color. I know we talked about this before but just think about this as a listener: If the winemaker knows that all you care about is that salmon color, and they think that that’s why you’re going to buy the rosé, then they may cut a lot of other corners, or they may not ensure that the rosé is as delicious as it could be just to ensure that salmon color. Because that’s what’s going to cause you to buy it, and so you may be sacrificing a lot of flavor and deliciousness. All the winemaker was trying to do was being told by the owner or the owner that they’re working for: Hit that salmon color so someone buys the wine. You’ll see the majority of our wines are not that salmon color. There are some, obviously, but a lot of them lean darker because they’re just delicious. Don’t get caught up on it having to be that pale, pale, pale pink because you’re missing out on a lot of really amazing rosé that way.

Z: I’m going to offer my own little tip here before we wrap things up. It’s certainly true that one of the great things about rosé is that it can be fun, it can be playful, and it can be kind of whatever you want it to be. It doesn’t require necessarily taking it all that seriously. It also can be taken seriously. As Tim was mentioning (and everyone has touched on at one point or another), there are some serious wines on this list. If you want to think about them, you want to come back to them a day later when they’ve had a chance to evolve a little bit. I think there’s a lot of rosé out there these days that really rewards you for taking it a bit more seriously. Since we can’t just chug it on a patio these days, why not take the opportunity: Take this rosé season as a chance to discover a little more and dig a little deeper if that is what’s interesting to you.

A: Awesome… That makes a lot of sense. Guys, thank you so much to Keith and Tim for joining us on this rosé-tastic podcast. Zach and Erica, as always, it’s a pleasure. To all those that listen: We really appreciate it. Please read the list, give us your thoughts, let us know what you think, and hit us up at [email protected]. Also standing offer: Some of you reached out, you’ve got wine you want to send it to any of us? Just hit us. You’ve got beer you want to send any of us? Just hit us. Spirits you want to send any of us? Just hit us. We could use it. [email protected] and then again, if you’re enjoying what you’re listening to and appreciating the work we’re putting into putting out all this content throughout the Covid-19 crisis, please leave us a review. Tell your friends, like us on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. All those reviews and ratings really help people discover the show. And, we’ll see you next week.

Z: Sounds great.

E: Bye!

A: Thanks so much for listening to the VinePair podcast, if you enjoy listening to us every week please leave us a review or rating on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts, it really helps everyone else discover the show. And now for the credits:

VinePair is produced and hosted Zach Geballe, Erica Duecy and me: Adam Teeter. Our engineer is Nick Patri and Keith Beavers. I’d also like to give a special shout out to my VinePair co-founder Josh Malin and the rest of the VinePair team for their support. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again right here next week.

Ed. Note: Transcript has been edited for brevity and clarity.