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This week on the “VinePair Podcast,” Adam Teeter, Zach Geballe, and Joanna Sciarrino discuss the return of happy hour. But first, Teeter recaps his trip to Louisville, which involved lots of bourbon, Geballe posits a new cocktail recipe, and our hosts dive into a discussion about the sudden cessation of to-go cocktail programs in New York and other states.

The trio then debates whether or not bars should continue offering happy hour deals during these uncertain times. They also discuss the role office culture plays in happy hour attendance, and whether or not those returning to in-person work will be the driving forces in the return of happy hour.

If you have any thoughts on the future of happy hour, please send your ideas to [email protected].

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Adam Teeter: From VinePair’s New York City headquarters, I’m Adam Teeter.

Joanna Sciarrino: And I’m Joanna Sciarrino.

Zach Geballe: And in Seattle, Wash., I’m Zach Geballe.

A: And this is the “VinePair Podcast.” It really feels like summer now. It’s crazy out there.

Z: It’s supposed to be over 100 degrees in Seattle this weekend. I know we are trying to avoid too much weather conversation, but that is going to suck. That is about 15 to 20 degrees above where I stop going outside.

A: Well, speaking of it feeling crazy. Earlier this week, I was in Louisville, Ky.

Z: Yes. Tell us, how much bourbon did you drink?

A: A good amount. A little bit regretfully, I probably didn’t need one bourbon at the end of the night on Tuesday. Anyway, it was interesting. This was my first time on the plane since Covid was over. It’s not over, sorry, but since we are coming out of it and in Louisville, it felt like Covid was over. It was really weird. I definitely think different parts of the country are very much doing different things. I mean, no one was wearing masks. I think I got weird looks everywhere. I wore a mask. My Uber driver on the way back to the airport on Wednesday told me he thought I should take my mask off. I said “I’m good with it on, thank you.” He said, “I’m vaccinated, aren’t you? Then, take it off.” I said, “No.” It was just weird, but it was interesting to be in Louisville for sure. The city definitely feels very dead in certain ways. All of the downtown areas where there are offices were pretty quiet, but then in the evenings when the bars were at their fullest, it looked like a very normal city. No sidewalk shelters in terms of people dining outside. Everyone was inside, no windows open for ventilation. Windows were closed to conserve air conditioning in the Southern heat, and no one with masks. It was really crazy.

Z: Joanna, have you been to Louisville?

J: I have been to Louisville for a wedding.

Z: That’s when I was there.

J: I think I went to the baseball museum?

Z: Yeah, the Louisville Slugger Museum.

A: You were close enough, they make baseball bats.

J: That’s it. It was nice, but I didn’t get to explore much.

Z: I went there for a wedding as well and definitely drank a lot of bourbon, but one of my great regrets in life and frustrations occurred at the rehearsal dinner held at Churchill Downs, where they hold the Kentucky Derby. It was not just beer and wine, there were cocktails and all that. The thing you could not get, which is the one thing you would think going to Churchill Downs you would be able to get, is a Mint Julep. My good friend, who was the groom, his mom because his parents were the ones hosting the rehearsal dinner, was worried that people would get too drunk if they had Mint Juleps. We were not allowed to have Mint Juleps but I could go get shots of bourbon, mind you, and did.

A: Funny.

Z: I was so annoyed. I may well be back in Kentucky and may well go to Churchill Downs at some point in my life. There’s also a decent chance I’ll never be there again. It is the drink that is so iconic for not just the town, but literally the place I’m standing and yet I can’t get it. Yeah, I may have complained about that all night.

A: I could see you complaining about that all night. I’m not surprised.

Z: It’s in keeping with me.

A: Yes, it’s your brand, but it was interesting, though. It’s crazy. There’s been an influx of distilleries that have opened in Louisville. I guess that’s always the case, right?

Z: No, it was surprising to me when I was there that I thought I would be able to go to distilleries. No, you can drive to Lexington, right. I’m not renting a car to go to the distilleries, that seems like a bad idea.

A: That’s definitely more of where they are. I’ve actually been to Lexington before for work. This is my first time working in Louisville, but there are a few now. They have Rabbit Hole, which I think was just bought by Pernod Ricard. They have a huge facility. It’s a massive steel and glass facility in this neighborhood of Louisville called Nulu, which was interesting. Obviously, Angel’s Envy is right downtown. It was interesting to see and they take bourbon very seriously. The majority of people that were in town were definitely there for bourbon tourism reasons and checking it all out.

Z: Didn’t Old Forester open down there too, right?

A: They have tasting rooms. There is this one street and they call it Bourbon Row. A lot of the distilleries have “the Old Forester Experience,” “the Maker’s Mark Experience.”

Z: OK, so they don’t make anything there.

A: No, you can still go to their distillery, but I think they’re just trying to catch anyone who just happens to be in town.

Z: Someone coming across the bridge from Ohio, whatever.

A: Yeah, exactly. I think that was the thing that was interesting, too, is that there were a lot of those that felt like going to the Jameson Experience in Dublin. Nothing’s being distilled there, but you can go there and experience the brand. The only operating distilleries were those three, and there might be another one I’m forgetting. And Stitzel-Weller is close to the city, but not in Louisville. Everywhere we went, it didn’t matter where you were, they had insane bourbon lists.

Z: Did you have a single best bourbon? I know that’s impossible, but for the sake of our running conceit here that we talk about what we drank.

A: I had some interesting stuff. I had the Wheated Wilderness Trail. They are the distillery that’s being hyped more than anything else by the geeks right now. I thought that it was good. Again, it didn’t blow me away, but it was good. I still think that Larceny does really great stuff. I had a Larceny single barrel that was really delicious and very well priced. Also, you look at these lists now, and it’s like, holy crap. For a one-ounce pour of some of these liquids, we’re getting over $50, $60, or $70 a pour. That was crazy to just see how exorbitant the prices have been. You can also tell, just like anything, that whatever is currently hot is what everyone’s asking for. I would say at least three different people just assumed we were looking for Blanton’s, since that’s the thing that everybody wants. One of our Uber drivers said, “Hey guys, I know three liquor stores that have Blanton’s.” People get in your car and ask who has Blanton’s and where they can get it? It’s just so funny that that’s the bourbon that exploded recently, because I used to be able to get it very easily at liquor stores all over New York. I know it’s good, but I don’t really understand how that gets hyped all of a sudden. And now, no one could find it.

Z: I thought you were going to say your Uber driver is going to offer you a little nip from his bottle. I mean, maybe. You gotta take the mask off for that one, though.

A: Yeah, so that one was quite tasty. I had an Evan Williams and that was pretty delicious. I had the Old Forester 117 series. That was pretty amazing. It was really, really tasty. It was $35 for a one-ounce pour, which is, again, exorbitant, but it was what it was. Besides that, we had wine and beer because those were the things that people were looking for. Tim was my guide, so I was asking him what I should drink. Two of the people I was with had the Elijah Craig Toasted Barrel, which apparently people are crazy for and the geeks can’t find it. It was also really tasty. Yet, the whole thing with bourbon is so insane with the limited releases, exclusivity, and scarcity thing. It’s crazy. However, it was fun to go down to Louisville. I’m glad I saw it. What about you guys?

J: This past weekend, we went to one of our favorite local bars, Brandy Library. If you’re familiar with it, it’s a really wonderful spot. It has a really extensive selection of fine spirits, and it’s really beautiful inside there. The walls are completely lined and they’re illuminated. It has a lovely lounge setting. I saw on the menu that they had Westland Whiskey. I wanted to try it, obviously, after your chat with Matt Hofman, Zach. I tried the Sherrywood Single Malt Whiskey, which was really lovely and aromatic. You can really pick up the sherry in it. I also tried the Starward Nova single malt Australian whiskey, which I’ve had before, but the bartender poured it for us, and that’s also really interesting. It’s aged in red wine barrels for two years.

A: Oh, very cool.

J: It was really warm and spiced. Yeah, they were both just really interesting, beautiful expressions.

Z: Very cool. If you guys haven’t listened to the interview I did with Matt Hofman, I like to think that all of our “Next Round” episodes are great, but what they’re doing at Westland is very interesting to me and has been for quite some time. It helps that the whiskey is also, I think, quite good because interesting is one thing, but it has to taste good.

J: I agree.

A: Totally. What about you, Zach?

Z: Well, there are two things that I had this last week that I am most excited about or was most excited about. Adam, you and I did an interview or a podcast episode a while back talking about the wines of Ribera del Duero and Rueda. I had one of the bottles that they sent, the Martinsancho Rueda, so white wine made from Verdejo. For Father’s Day, we went out to my dad’s house and my dad, as he almost always does when he has a group of people over, makes paella, which is good and bad. My dad’s paella is tasty, but it takes for f*ckin’ ever. I always try to bring some wines to go with it and actually brought a couple of wines. One was an Assyrtiko from Santorini, from Estate Argyros. Then, the other was Martin Sancho Rueda. I was very pleased with how well it paired. I think paella is a complicated dish to pair with because there’s a lot going on. Sometimes I’ve paired it more with a lighter-bodied white wine, but you need the richness and unctuousness of something like this to hold up the richness that is really a big part of paella. Even though it’s got some seafood and stuff like that, which we’re still talking white wine, I think it paired really nicely. The other thing that I made recently that I’ve been obsessively tinkering with is — because we talked about modern classic cocktails — I’ve been trying to come up with a drink. It takes the template of the Paper Plane but does something different with it.

A: Interesting.

Z: I’ve long been a big fan of drinks that combine aged tequila, Cynar, and lime juice. I think the three of those work really, really well together. Three of the four ingredients, conceptually at least towards a Paper Plane in that you have your brown spirit, in this case tequila. You have your citrus juice and you have a bitter liqueur. Obviously, Cynar is pretty different from Aperol, but tequila is pretty different from whiskey. It’s really been that last ingredient that’s been bedeviling me so far. Part of it is just that I have a limited range of amari at home. My first attempt was a Fernet because maybe a minty thing will be interesting. That didn’t work so well. It tasted like an ashtray, unfortunately. I like Fernet, but it doesn’t always play well in cocktails with others. Then, I tried Amaro Montenegro, which was pretty good. I tried Nonino, but it can get lost in there. I’m open to suggestions from you guys or anyone else out there if you’ve got a herbal but not overly minty amari, or something else that I should try as this last part of the cocktail. It’s close to being what I wanted to be. It’s just not quite there yet.

A: Well, so here’s my question with this. Do you think the Cynar, because it is so much of a fuller flavor than even an Aperol, maybe it makes it harder to then also add another amaro?

Z: That could be. It’s possible that what I need to do is find another ingredient that goes in a somewhat different direction. I haven’t done this yet, but I’ve thought about doing something like dry Curaçao. I would like to get more of that orange note that you also get from Aperol, but not as intense. Yeah, that might be the next iteration because it’s true that Cynar lends more bitterness and impact than Aperol. Stay tuned.

A: Yes, please keep us updated.

Z: I will.

A: The other thing I think is worth talking about before we jump into this subject is, I don’t know if you guys saw. I know Joanna did, but Zach, it’s not as impactful for you. It is really interesting to see the city of New York or the state of New York actually just decided to immediately cancel ready-to-go cocktails, effective today.

Z: Pennsylvania did that a week or two ago.

A: Just really stupid. I get that it’s feeling a lot more normal, but that doesn’t mean that the places that were hit the hardest have recovered. Do you know what I mean? I don’t understand why it’s hurting anyone for these restaurants to be able to still sell cocktails to-go. This seems like another kick in the gut, right? Restaurants are just trying to do what they need to do to survive. They are given this lifeline. They make investments to make sure it’s safe and is high quality, all this stuff. Now, with no warning, “Oh, this is done tomorrow.” It just really sucks.

Z: It really does. I didn’t see specifically what Cuomo said about this or the people who are either pushing for this or directing it from the state level. As you said, who is this hurting, and what is the reason to not only end these policies but end them instantly? It’d be one thing if they said, “Hey, we think that by Sept. 30 we can wrap this up.” Fine, you get through summer. There’s probably a lot of interesting ready-to-go cocktails in the winter, etc. Yet, to drop that on everyone with essentially zero notice and zero lag time, whose interests are being served by that? Seriously, I wonder who behind the scenes is lobbying on this because that doesn’t seem like something that happens suddenly without at least a little bit of pressure that maybe we’re not aware of.

A: Yeah, it has to be right. I mean, someone had to have lobbied. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense at all.

Z: Yeah. If you know [email protected], we’ll call them out.

A: Yeah, totally. It is very strange. The whole thing is very strange. Why it’s so abrupt is very strange. I was super bullish that the shelters or the outdoor seating in the street were going to be here to stay. Now, I really wonder if that’s the case.

Z: Yeah. Although, those things are so much more visible. I think there might be more pushback from people who’ve really enjoyed having that, including the restaurants and things. If they go away, to-go cocktails are visible in a sense, but they’re not something that New Yorkers see all day, every day. I’m sure both of you walk outside your door that you’re seeing these structures on the street anywhere you go. I think that probably lends them a chance of being more permanent. However, I agree. “Back to normal” sometimes means losing things that we thought we had gained in this period of time.

J: Yeah. Also just to Adam’s point, these were such significant investments on behalf of bars and restaurants to erect these — in some cases — full structures. It would just be such a shame, and abruptly? That would be horrible.

A: Yeah, it would just be the worst. Well, today’s big discussion is all about happy hour, and what the future of happy hour is going to look like now that we are slowly starting to make our way back to the office. I think we’re going to see more and more people go back to work. That’s my hypothesis. I think a lot of you’re already hearing from people who have tried the hybrid model. For a lot of businesses, they’re saying it’s not working. It’s very hard for there to be a group of people in the office and a group of people on Zoom and to feel that the meeting is productive or that there’s a collaboration happening. It needs to be all of one or all of the other. I think that’s what you’ll start to see is some people who will permanently work from home or from home on these days specifically, whereas everyone else on other days is in the office. However, I do think we are going to start seeing more and more people come back to the office. As that happens, the question then becomes, are we going to see this massive return of happy hour? And what will happy hour look like? I think it’s an interesting thing to ponder, so what do you guys think?

J: I think another question that I’ve been thinking about just in this conversation is, should there be a happy hour? I mean that more from a financial point of perspective, with businesses just getting back on their feet, does it make sense for them to have happy hours? Should we be expecting that as patrons, or should we all just be willing to pay full price for the next while?

A: That’s a very, very interesting thought. Should we actually have happy hour? I’m not sure. This goes back to the conversation we had a while ago, Zach, about pricing models and whether the happy hour is beneficial because it brings new people into the bar at a time when maybe they wouldn’t come into the bar. I don’t know. Happy hour originally existed because it’s a time when the bar’s not that crowded and you want to get more people to the bar. But are people going to go to happy hour at all?

Z: Well, a thing that was always interesting to me is that Seattle has had an alarmingly vibrant happy hour culture for a long time. Here, I think it’s born out of maybe two interrelated things. One is the truth of it, which is that here in Seattle, especially in the fall and winter, it gets dark really early. There’s always been this thing where, as compared to New York, people just in general are done with their evenings earlier, bars close earlier, all those sorts of things. That all naturally shifts the business earlier in the evening. On top of that, you have widespread frugality or cheapness, whatever you want to call it. What’s interesting to me is talking to people I worked with over the years who moved to Seattle from other places, and their happy hour is maybe getting a dollar off a beer or two dollars off a glass of wine. It’s not what it was in Seattle for a lot of restaurants, where there is an extensive menu. There are real drink specials. It is more of what we talked about, as you said, with dynamic pricing. You come in and eat a full meal but eat it at 5 o’clock, not at 7 o’clock. Then, you have this back and forth about whether those things are really fundamentally different. However, I think the thing that I’m curious about feeds back into your initial question, Adam, about whether office culture will affect this. Many of the restaurants here and I think this is true for a lot of the country, especially places besides New York, where you just have incredible density. The downtown areas are, as you said in Louisville, the slowest areas to recover. There’s not a lot of business there during the day. I think the question is these places that maybe built a lot of their business around the idea of capturing happy hour business and then maybe that transitions into the dinner business. If people aren’t in the office, will they still come to these parts of the city for happy hour if the pricing is good enough? Maybe. Well, maybe if they’re only working in the office two or three days a week, maybe those two or three days are their “go-out nights,” right? They’re in the office Monday, Wednesday, Friday, so Wednesday and Friday nights, they go out. This isn’t an answer, I guess. I will be curious to hear what you both think. I do think that if I were an operator in a lot of these places, I would be cautiously dipping my toe back into happy hour promotions, and maybe we can address that profitability side of it in a moment. I do think that we’re just going to have to wait and see in some sense, because I really think — whether it’s business lunches, happy hour — how the business community responds and returns to restaurants and bars is a huge unanswered question yet, one that is going to be hugely impactful for a lot of these businesses. I will just add the last piece here, which is that my wife, who works for a big accounting firm, has just started to get some of those first, “Hey, we should have a work group happy hour.” Her business has been pretty conservative about coming back to the office. Everyone is still working from home until after Labor Day at the earliest. I mean, they’re allowing people to come in on occasion, but basically, it’s all still work from home. Yet, you can see there’s a lot of desire for this, and getting everyone together for a virtual happy hour just ain’t cutting it anymore. Understandably, those are not super fun.

A: Yeah, I think it’s going to come back in a big way. I think it’s going to come back in a big way just based on what I’m already seeing in terms of people who are asking to meet up in person. I was supposed to have a call tomorrow with someone and literally as we’re sitting here because obviously as we record, my email’s open.

Z: That is not a surprise.

A: The person says, “Hey, Adam, would you like to meet in person tomorrow? I see we’re meeting towards the end of the day, it would be great to grab a drink instead of sitting on Zoom.” I think there’s a lot of that that’s going to happen, and people who are gonna be really excited about it. I think that dipping your toe back into happy hour is not a bad idea, whether that happy hour has some food or a discount on drinks, maybe even the first drink and not the second. Maybe there’s some limit that’s not the time window. Maybe you get two drinks at this price and then we go to full price with you. I don’t know if restaurants are worried, but I think there’s going to be such a slam that most restaurants and bars usually have made a lot of money at happy hour in the past. I think it’s something where going back to that is going to be really exciting for a lot of people.

J: Yeah, I think you also make a really good point, Zach, about the places like the downtown areas that have been so depressed over the past 16 months. For the ones that have managed to stay alive and stay open, this will probably be a really big part of their strategy to draw people in the ones who are returning to the office.

Z: To the question that you raised, Joanna, about whether we should be doing this and profitability, Adam makes a point that I think is a good one, which is that you can definitely make money at happy hour. Happy hour is a different financial model than fine dining dinner service. Look, I remember being not astonished by this, but impressed by it. Some of the most profitable bars and restaurants that are out there are places that are churn and burn. It’s fast-paced. They get people in and get people out. Maybe you’re paying less, but you have volume, and that adds up quickly. I think the questions that we can’t yet answer are how will this be affected by what we’ve all been seeing and hearing about, issues with a labor crunch? Fast-paced services are demanding and challenging. It requires a decent amount of staff, in a lot of cases, to get through to just get things cooked, get drinks made, poured, on tables, and the payment process. This is one that I wanted to mention in this context. There’s also this upcoming other crunch that I don’t know if you guys are fully aware of, but I’ve been hearing about it from people I know on the supply side, which is we have a huge wine crunch coming, and it’s almost all concentrated in the kinds of wines that are poured at happy hour.

A: You mean there’s going to be a ton on the market, or none?

Z: No, there’s going to be a tremendous lack of it. Again, what has not been talked about a ton is how much less wine got made in 2020 in Europe than in previous years. Some of that was Covid, weather, and the broader economic uncertainty surrounding Covid. The problem is, if you don’t make the wine, it doesn’t exist. It’s not beer, it’s not spirits. You can’t always ramp up production. Some things you might have back inventory on, certainly some suppliers and distributors here in the U.S. might have that. However, between tariffs and shipping issues, there is an incredible crunch right now. I was talking to a friend who works for a distributor. He said, “I have almost no under-$10 European wine.” Sparkling wine, white wine, and rosés are just starting to arrive, but it’s also been delayed. If you’re pouring wine at happy hour, you’re relying on that category, right? Your wholesale cost has got to be $5, $6, or $7 a bottle. Sure, there’s some really big- production stuff that you might be able to get, and in some places, that might be just fine. However, if you’re not trying to pour the really big-production stuff, or at least that’s recognizable to people from stacks and stacks in the grocery store, you have limited options right now. It’s unclear, as far as I can tell, if any of that stuff is going to make it to the U.S. in time for the summer. We’re already in summer, as you pointed out at the beginning, Adam, and so we are facing this other crunch that is real for restaurants and bars. Now, you might ask, “What the hell do I pour for people?” There’s some stuff out there, but there’s a lot of competition for it, obviously. I don’t know what the answer is going to be. It would be a thing for domestic producers to think about, but opportunities abound because there’s obviously a demand for happy hour pours. I think there’s a lot of struggle meeting that demand and will be going forward for at least a few more months.

A: OK, let me ask a question. What percentage of people do you think order wine for happy hour?

Z: A lot, depending on where you are. When we did a happy hour in my restaurants, I would say at least 40 to 45 percent of what we poured was wine.

A: Interesting. But it was a restaurant, not a bar.

Z: Yes. If you go to a dive bar, people are drinking whatever, their $5 well drinks. That’s a different story. There is plenty of that stuff, I promise. Again, you think about what we’re talking about. There are the happy hour places that serve 23-year-olds who are looking for one thing. Then, there are happy hour places that serve us or people like us. There, I think you’re much more likely to see people drinking wine. I mean, that has always been my experience.

A: I think it’s so weird for me that I never really, in New York, got out in time to have happy hour. The time I left the office, it was not happy hour. I’m not aware of what bars or restaurants where I would have had wine, even did at happy hour.

Z: Joanna, what about you?

J: I mean, similar to Adam, that was a special occasion if we were out of the office early enough to partake in happy hour, but I often would get wine at happy hour.

A: Interesting. I think it’s going to come back in a very strong way. For the people that live in the city, are we going to have as many people trying to hit a happy hour location before they go to the train? No, because I think people who left these cities for the suburbs may try to negotiate some way to work from home. Whether they’re at a company that will allow that is up for debate. I’m sure a lot of people over the last week have seen the really famous speech that went around from the CEO of JP Morgan who basically said, “If you can come into the city to go out to eat, then you can come into the city to go to work.” It’ll be really interesting to see who takes that approach. If you want to make a New York salary, you need to live in New York. Then, which companies take other approaches and basically say, “No, this is fine. We’re saving so much on the office space and we’re still cool with you working from home.” How does that impact happy hour? When I was working from home during the pandemic, I don’t think I would have left my apartment at 5:30 and hit a happy hour location in my neighborhood. For me, happy hour is very transitional, leaving-the-office-on-your-way-home experience. I don’t know if happy hour takes place in a smaller town in the suburbs where people are still working from home. But in the core business districts of cities where people are going to go back to the office, I think it’ll boom.

Z: One last related question. Do you think we’re going to see the continued return and resurgence of the bottomless Mimosa brunch?

J: I think so. Did it ever go away?

Z: It was Covid-related. You couldn’t get a bottomless Mimosa to go, I’m pretty sure.

A: I don’t know. I feel the bottomless Mimosa came back with a force last summer. What really happened because of Covid, which I think we’re going to continue to see, was the rise of massive amounts of day drinking. All of these places had outdoor spots, and that’s where people felt safe, and they didn’t really want to do it at night. Then, as it was getting into the fall, it was getting cooler, so everyone was drinking during the day. There were several occasions where I remember having to come into the city for something and walking through the East Village or Murray Hill and tripping over very inebriated people who clearly had a lot of fun at bottomless brunch.

Z: What do they say? Nature is healing.

A: Exactly. I think that’s going to continue to be just a huge thing, especially in the cities that have always taken brunch seriously. New York likes its brunch.

Z: The bottomless Mimosa thing I’ve never been able to get behind. personally.

A: Me either.

Z: I’ve seen what goes into both the orange juice and the sparkling wine, and I want no part of either personally.

A: I mean, it’s never been my thing, but I’m going to say something crazy. I’m not the biggest day drinker.

J: Me neither.

A: I like to day drink once in a while, but I’m really not a day drinker. I’m really bad at it. Joanna, you said you are bad at it, too?

J: I am so bad at it.

A: It’s terrible. All of a sudden, I’m really tired.

J: It’s time to go home.

*A: I’m not good at it. I know I’m from a big college town, but I was a bad tailgater. I was the guy that didn’t want to drink before going into the stadium because then you didn’t get to watch the game.

Z: I guess with Auburn, at least that was a reasonable concern. In some college towns, that might’ve been the point.

A: Right, exactly. I’ve never been the best day drinker. Even for this weekend, I have a little party that I’m having.

Z: Yeah. Happy birthday, by the way.

A: Thank you. I just want everyone to know it is my birthday. By the way, if you are a Champagne brand and would like to sponsor my birthday, reach out to [email protected]. Anyways, I want to have a picnic in the park with some of our good friends, but I wanted it to start at 4:30 or 5 because I don’t want to day drink. I want an evening drink and then go home.

Z: In early summer, it’s going to be light out plenty long. You are not exactly cutting it at 7 p.m.

A: Exactly, but I am just not a great day drinker.

Z: Well, none of us are perfect, Adam.

A: None of us are perfect. Anyway, a really interesting conversation. I actually am looking forward to a happy hour. I’m going to have my first happy hour, actually, next Tuesday.

Z: Well, maybe if I ever make it to New York, we’ll have an official podcast happy hour.

A: That would be awesome.

Z: Sponsors… [email protected].

A: Yeah. All right, guys. Well, I’ll see you next week.

J: Yes, happy birthday!

A: Thank you!

Z: Sounds great.

Thanks so much for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” If you love this show as much as we love making it, then please give us a rating or review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it is you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show.

Now for the credits. VinePair is produced and recorded in New York City and in Seattle, Wash., by myself and Zach Geballe. He does all the editing and loves to get the credit. Also, I would love to give a special shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for helping make all this possible and also to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tastings director, who is additionally a producer on the show. I also want to, of course, thank every other member of the VinePair team who is instrumental in all of the ideas that go into making the show every week. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you again.

Thanks for listening to the show, and just as a reminder, VinePair in partnership with Rémy Martin, is presenting the Bartender Talent Academy, an exciting Cognac cocktail competition. You can showcase your most creative Sidecar cocktail recipes to compete for a chance at the grand prize: a trip to Cognac, France in October to test your bartending skills against the world’s best. All you need is a shaker and a passport. So visit for all competition details and to enter. Hope to see you there.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.