This week, Jake goes out with content creator and comedian Mecca Evans. The two discuss situationship breakups, complicated cousin relationships, Yik Yak, and Paul Masson Brandy. Tune in for more.

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Jake Cornell: How are you?

Mecca Evans: I love — sorry. I’m great. How are you all?

J: I’m good. Thank you so much for being here.

M: I’m really excited. This is so cool. I’ve never been on a podcast before. You guys are my first.

J: Oh, my God. Wait, that’s amazing. I asked you because truly you are currently my number one. I never scroll past, every video that comes up, I know is going to make me laugh. You bring me a lot of joy. I was very excited to have you on.

M: Thank you. I love your videos too. I was showing my home girl who’s house I’m at right now, I was like, “Do you follow Jake? Do you know Jake?” “Yes, and you’re going to his podcast.” I was geeked out. Thank you.

J: Oh, that’s so nice. You live in Houston?

M: I do.

J: Amazing. Is that where you grew up?

M: No, I grew up in California. I’m from Sacramento.

J: Oh, nice. How long ago have you been in Houston?

M: I’ve been in Houston for almost, honestly, two years on February 1st.

J: Nice. What brought you over there?

M: I was trying to escape a relationship that I had got out of, that ended terribly. I was finishing school in Baltimore, and then COVID hit. It was just so many bad things at one time. I was like, “I need a fresh start.”

J: Houston was the fresh start?

M: This is going to sound bad. We came out here to party and everything was still really regular because it’s Texas and it’s ass-backwards. I was like, “Yo, this is lit.” By day three into this trip, I was like, “I want to live out here.” 60 days later, I was.

J: Whoa, wait, that’s so fun.

M: Aries. I’m very impulsive.

J: What’s your moon and your rising?

M: My moon is Sagittarius and my rising is Capricorn, but the Capricorn is the reason I can hold down a job.

J: We’re both Capricorn risings.

M: You get me.

J: You have a lot of fire. I’m not super fiery.

M: It can get weird.

J: Wait, this is perfect because, obviously, this is a podcast about going out and it sounds like going out and partying is what brought you to this city that you’re living in now.

M: Yes, sorry. I just had to take my rubber band off my teeth because it was causing me to have a lisp. I had braces for five years so I’m very serious about my rubber bands and my retainer and stuff. On downtime, I always have everything in.

J: The teeth look good.

M: Thank you. When I was listening to myself, I was like oh, my God, I sound like this.

J: Partying is essentially what brought you to this city that you’re living in now?

M: Literally, actually, yes.

J: What was it about the scene in Houston that you were like, “I want to live here?”

M: Houston, it’s like whatever your niche is, you can find it. If you’re like me, I be deep at the Black spots or Afro beats or Caribbean, but you can find a mixed crowd, you can find, I don’t know, I went to a Latin spot. Mediterranean and Arab spots are really big out here and that’s its own separate thing that I just recently got into.

J: Is that like Hookah bars?

M: Yes, but they’re also only serving Mediterranean food. It’s only Middle Eastern people in there and North Africans in there and it’s very smoky. It’s sexy, honestly.

J: It sounds it.

M: A lot of men with a lot of hair.

J: That’s so interesting. I feel like that’s part of what I love about New York. Wait, you were in Baltimore and Sacramento. Did you feel like those places had more of a homogenous going out of style?

M: Yes, it’s a lot smaller. You know what I’m saying?

J: Yes.

M: That was another reason why I was, oh, I have to cut because I kept seeing my ex out or his friends because Baltimore is small. Fells Point is basically the main place that everyone goes, which is right there on the water and it’s really, really beautiful but it’s also, absolutely not.

J: The beauty of anything fades when it’s small. Community is beautiful, but also, if you’re seeing the same people and there’s no spontaneity, then that gets old.

M: Yes, it does. Then what ends up happening, a lot of people from Baltimore go to D.C. to party. We would go on a D.C. brunch, is a thing. On the weekends, heavy in D.C. After my breakup, I started dating all around D.C. That was a fun time. Men with money are weird.

J: Yes.

M: We can discuss that.

J: Wait, I’m curious. What was your strategy? Were you like let me say change my Tinder location to D.C.? How did we-

M: I changed. This is so funny. Do you know how Hinge came out during the pandemic and you still have to pay for certain things as you don’t have to pay for now? I was, it’s $20 a month. I’ve spent $20 on stupider things. I bought it and I had unlimited whatever swipes and I could change everything. I just changed it to D.C. and since I had friends who were living out there and I was going to go out there on the weekends anyway, that’s how I was getting my beat.

J: I just got back on Hinge for the first time in — I actually was never really on Hinge because I was just in a relationship for six years and I’m fine.

M: Oh, are you OK? I was too so I know when you’re coming out of something for a long time, it’s shaky.

J: One of the most frustrating things about the breakup has been because we were together for so long, when I tell people, “Oh, my ex and I broke up.” People react, like I said, someone in my family just had a massive heart attack, they’re like, “Oh my God.” I’m like, “I know, it’s a huge life change. We were together for a really long time, but we have had a very amicable breakup. We are still friends. We are OK.” It’s been hard, but it hasn’t been this earth-shattering, devastating like I’m f*cked up from it thing. There are people like — I’ve had more traumatizing breakups from something that was six months long. Do you know what I mean?

M: Those are really traumatizing, the situationship breakups.

J: The situationship breakups, that’s literally what I’m saying, it’s the length of the relationship is not actually correlated that heavily to the trauma level of the breakup itself. It’s correlated for sure to the life change of it. I had to f*cking move. All that stuff is different when you’re in a long, long-term relationship, but we know how to communicate and treat each other well and we did that through the breakup so we’re fine. Do you know what I mean? I feel there’s been situationship where I’m like, “f*ck,” you know?

M: Yes. This is terrible. I hate this.

J: Yes, exactly. Oh, I got back on Hinge for the first time last week because I was bored. Back when I was dating, Hinge was not popping. Hinge was a thing when I was single the first time. It used to be, I’ve talked about this on the podcast before because I think it’s some most insane thing. The original version of Hinge was, the premise of it was, it’s the worst idea in the world. I literally downloaded it for a week and then was, get this off my phone. The original version of Hinge was, the idea was that it was Tinder, but it would only show you people that you had Facebook mutuals with. Then it would show you who the mutual was. It would show you, it’d be, this is Todd, he’s friends with Mecca. I’d be, “No.”

M: That’s messy.

J: I don’t want that.

M: I love it.

J: You love that?

M: I love that.

J: No, it’s messy as f*ck.

M: I know.

J: No, I was not into it.

M: No, I feel that, but you know what? I’m messy. That’s how I date anyway.

J: What’s dating messy look like?

M: Dating messy is, I would’ve lived on something like that because I troll. I go through my homegirls’ followers and then their friends’ followers and like, “Who do you guys follow so that I know I’m dating someone who was, I don’t know, close by?” Also, with internet, and I’ve been on dating apps since I could f*cking date. We learn so much about being safe and all this stuff. Todd, it came from making sure the person is real and someone I know or someone I know who I know knows you. Do you get what I’m saying?

J: 100 percent.

M: It’s not a random person. That’s where me trolling the way that I look for whether it’s trolling for c*ck, or whatever, that’s where it came from. It’s like, “I can ask someone about you.”

J: That’s so interesting. That makes sense.

M: Also, as a lady, as a woman, you have to be hypervigilant at all times about certain things dating online.

J: 100 percent. It’s so funny. The experience is completely different when you are a man, even a gay man. This experience, just the level of the way that my personal safety is not the first thing I think about is.

M: You have to, and you know what’s crazy? My dad was living with me and when I had moved here to Houston and he recently moved back to California. Now, I got the crib, and that’s been really exciting. I’m trying to furnish it. We, as in the men on my roster, but we are furnishing the house right now. We’re furnishing it, it’s looking good. We’re getting the plants and the colors in there but also-

J: Oh, f*ck, I have to water my plants. Sorry, that reminded me that I haven’t watered my plants in two weeks.

M: Terrible parent, terrible. Thinking about who I’m inviting over to my house because now it’s just me in there and it’s been hectic. I do have a little appointment. If you could follow me on TikTok, I’m celibate, but I’m about to break my celibacy.

J: Congratulations.

M: Thank you. Very excited about it.

J: That’s very exciting.

M: Do you want to hear about it? Am I allowed to talk about it on this podcast?

J: Absolutely.

M: Funny story, he’s from the U.K. so he has an accent. I’d be talking about him on TikTok. I nicknamed him Roman because Roman, stop it Roman. That’s how I sound when I’m trying to — that’s how I sound when I am trying to imitate him. He had previously matched with my cousin who I moved out here with on Hinge.

J: You are f*cking messy.

M: It’s not over yet. We look very similar. He matched with her at one point back in September. He was messaging both of us on Instagram and we were together and we’re just laughing about it, like, “Look at this guy. He’s messaging both of us.” Fast forward, he comes back and he asks me out, and I was like, “Hey girl, I’m just going to go on a date. I’m hungry or whatever.” She is like, “Yes, I don’t care. I never followed up with him.” I go on the date, we’re at this really cool place called Bosscat here in Houston. They do live music. It was a really good date actually. I’m four Lemon Drops in, and I’m like, “You know you match with my cousin. She looks exactly like me,” and he’s mortified. He’s like, “What are you talking about?” Pulled up on Instagram. Low and behold, he pulls up the messages and he’s immediately like, “I will never talk to her again.” That was the week before Christmas. Her and I spent Christmas together and it’s just us. We’ve made all this food and she’s even messier than I am because this was her idea. She was like, “Invite that guy over. We’ll play games, we’ll drink, invite him over.” I text him and he’s like, “The same cousin that I matched with?” I was like, “Yes.” He was like, “I don’t know if that’s a good idea.” She goes on her Instagram and is basically like, “You’re p***y.” She’s like, “You’re p***y.”

J: She messaged him and calls him a p***y on Instagram. I’m dying.

M: Basically, and now he’s like, “Oh, now I feel like I have to go.” Long to the short, he shows up.

J: I’m dying.

M: It’s Christmas night. We’re at — this is her house. That’s why he was so hesitant to come.

J: Is there parents there, like aunts and uncles or is it just you alone?

M: No, it’s just us. We literally moved out here as 25-year-olds. Let’s just run him up. Let’s just be insane. That’s what we’ve been successfully doing. He comes over, we play all the obligatory out-of-pocket games, Taboo. One of the questions is literally-

J: You did Taboo. This is so funny.

M: It’s the three of us and we’re sh*t-faced. He pulls up with this wonderful bottle of wine. It was really good. It was 15 percent. It was a 10 out of 10. One of the questions he gets asked is, “Who would you kiss in this room”? She goes, “Yes, who would you kiss? We know you think we’re both pretty.” Just trolling him the entire night. At one point, she ends up FaceTiming a guy she’s talking to because she texts me. She’s like, “He’s eating you with his eyes. He’s stealing you with his eyes right now.” When I’m drunk, I just don’t be paying attention to sh*t like that. I feel like I’m more wholesome when I’m drunk because I’m like, “Oh, I’m here on vibes. Let’s have a good time.” I finally walk him out to the car. We make out, obviously. It gets taken there. He pulls his d*ck out and I’m like, “Now, that’s some sh*t I could get into, but not tonight. We’re going to circle back around.” This is the circle back around.

J: That was how you spent Christmas this year?

M: This is literally how I spent — I can’t make this up.

J: No, I respect it. You’re running him up. I think this is beautiful.

M: Finally, I think that once your frontal lobe develops and you realize I can do all the sh*t I was doing before and just add some common sense and some money into that.

J: That’s actually exactly what it is. That’s actually exactly what it is.

M: I said that I’m worse than when I was 19, 20. I was pretty bad then.

J: Wait, when did you start going out and partying?

M: Probably when I was 21. I was really fortunate. I had an apartment. I had my own apartment in college that my parents paid for. My house was the party spot. We had a lot of friends coming over. I did a lot of house parties at my crib. Then the more so going out has really been since I’ve been in Houston.

J: You said you really like going to the Black spots in Houston.

M: Yes, I like Black men and you got to go where they at. You got to follow the chair.

J: I talked about this with another of my friends on the show. For you, is going out about getting a hookup? Is that the main goal or you sometimes just out for a good time?

M: You know what? Like I said, the older the frontal lobe development, it’s become less about the hookup and more about just enjoying my friends.

J: Absolutely.

M: Probably in the last eight months, I won’t say all of last year, but there was definitely a turning point last year, where I was, “I just want to enjoy my home girls.” I even recently was on the phone with someone I went to college with. They were like, “When we watch your content on TikTok, you talk about boys, but you talk a lot about what you’d be doing with your friends and stuff. It’s clear that that’s important to you.” I was, “Yes.” You get to an age where you just feel — I’ve had the big long-term relationship that I thought was going to end in marriage and kids and it didn’t. Then I’ve had the little situationships that’s like, “Oh, that didn’t work out.” That sucks. Now, I’m at the point where, whatever comes to me, it comes to me, I’m really not impressed. The people who are consistent in my life, I want to enjoy them as much as I can.

J: I’ve gone through those phases too. I think the secret recipe is that I think you can’t be going out dying for a hookup or being like that needs to happen because I think having that level of pressure on the night dampens it. I do think there has to be the chance.

M: Oh, there always is the chance.

J: Because for me, I’m really thinking about a gay bar versus a straight bar or a space where there’s going to be other queer people. The second I’m in a completely heterosexual space, the fact that I’m, there’s no chance of — Maybe that’s not true because, obviously, it’s not like I know every single person’s sexuality the second I walk in, but I went to a bar this weekend for my friend’s birthday. When I walked in. I was, I am the only gay man in this bar. I can smell it.

M: Oh, and Texas is the type of place where you will go to Montrose. That’s where all the queer, gay — I went to a drag show last night and it was really good. Hamburger Mary’s. It was 10 out of 10. I loved it. I always have been down, I get what you’re saying because I have a really good friend. She’s gay and when we were really young, and I’m talking 21. Back when I was in Cali, we had a system, we had to alternate weekends, I should say. When we can, we go to straight places when we can, we go to gay bars. This is why I joke on TikTok. I say, “I’m the girl that your real lesbian friends warn you about because we can kiss. I’ll flirt with you. I can’t eat your cat, girl. I’m so sorry. Your real lesbian friends will tell you stay away from me because I’d be in your face.” I will literally be in your face, “Yes, let’s go, whatever.” I remember I gave one girl my number. She got so mad at me because — mind you, I went on a date with her. I was like, “Why is she mad at me?” She’s moving fast, “I feel like you’re not giving me enough attention.” I was like, “This is too much.”

J: That’s so funny.

M: She was cute. She looks like, I don’t know — it was a vibe.

J: Absolutely. What’s your type of guy?

M: Right now, I’m deep in my — I don’t know, man. I’m deep in my tall chocolate man era. My ex is biracial. He was pretty tall and he was light-skinned. I like Mexicans. I definitely went through that phase when I moved out to Houston. That was fun. Everyone else I’d be lying and saying I’m Dominican. I speak Spanish a lot.

J: Wait, are you one of those people — wait, are you someone who lies for fun?

M: Yes.

J: You have that vibe.

M: Do I? I’m so happy because I do, and it’s like whenever I’m caught in the lie, it’s always like, do I want to stick to it and make them think they’re insane or just own it. It just depends on what the-

J: No, that’s messy. You’ve lived a messy life and I really respect it.

M: My nickname from college is actually Messy Meccs.

J: That’s so-

M: My friend there was crazy.

J: I want to hear all about it.

M: You know how colleges — My freshman year, Yik Yak was a thing for, it was really big.

J: Yik Yak was toxic as f*ck.

M: Yik Yak was insane.

J: Wait, let’s walk through Yik Yak for the listener because I don’t know that they all know because it was such a specific moment in time but that sh*t was not acceptable behavior.

M: No, Yik Yak was terrible. Yik Yak is not OK.

J: Yik Yak was unacceptable.

M: It was unacceptable but basically it was an app.

J: It was a website, right?

M: It was a website but you had it on your phone. It was an app and each college or school had their own, everyone could tune in and it was like live tweeting and the whole thing, especially, I went to a historically Black college. The thing about HBCUs is dressing, that’s like the big thing. You don’t like how at PWIs

J: Like fashion.

M: Yes. How at PWIs people be in sweats and everything? Not acceptable.

J: PWI is a predominantly White institution.

M: White institution. Historically Black colleges will be like Howard, Spelman. I went to Hampton.

J: I knew that. I’d never heard the term PWI before but .

M: When I went to Towson and people were going to class in sweats, I was like, “Yo, what the f*ck?” Because you put on full outfits. The reason it was so terrible, specifically at Hampton is because people would tune in for the caf. You walk into the caf — Oh, I remember this girl.

J: Wait, two questions. One, Yik Yak was anonymous too, right?

M: It was anonymous, but it didn’t have to be. You could put your name right but you also didn’t have to be.

J: That’s why it’s toxic because if you wanted to be mean as f*ck, you didn’t have to answer for it.

M: You didn’t. People were mean as f*ck. Since it’s live tweeting and everyone knows this person, you can be like, oh, I don’t even want to say her name, but for example, whatever. Hailey. “Hailey looks a f*cking mess today. Look at Hailey. Hailey’s upstairs.” Mind you, now the whole class is walking past Hailey to see why she looks a f*cking mess. Then tweeting in and being like, “Yes, what did that b*tch have on?” That’s literally Yik Yak. It was insane. It got to the point where people started avoiding certain spaces that they knew everyone was going to be at or if you wanted to be seen.

J: Yo, that is stressful as f*ck.

M: It was stressful. That’s why I’m saying, honestly, unacceptable.

J: When you say dressing up was a thing or the looks were the thing at HBCUs? Was it just having a look or dressing nice for school? What was the look-

M: All of the above, having a look like you definitely had the fashion girlies. You definitely had even I guess now when I see HBCU students, it’d be the Y2K girlies. You got that sh*t on, but you go like that to class and that’s an everyday thing. I feel like being from Cali, we always — This was a thing. In California, we wear Vans. It’s acceptable to wear Vans. Apparently, it’s not acceptable to wear Vans in all parts of America. I remember when I first got there, it was like, “You’re wearing Vans?”

J: Oh, no.

M: I was like, “Yes, I literally bought five pairs of slip-ons. What the f*ck?”

J: No, I did not know how to dress myself when I moved to New York and it was actually a really humiliating time. I didn’t . I moved to New York as someone who thought as a gay man. I was like, “Oh, if I’m going out, I’ll wear a nice button-up and jeans.”

M: Hell, where you from?

J: I just didn’t know how to dress myself. I’m from Vermont.

M: I was going to say that’s hilarious.

J: No, it was really bad. It was humiliating.

M: I went to New York for the first time during the pandemic and I had a blast. I was in Harlem.

J: Next time you come I’ll take you out. We’ll have a good time.

M: We will because I was at a Caribbean party in someone’s backyard. Best party I’ve ever been to.

J: I feel like you might have been around where I live in a Caribbean neighborhood or I used to live in a Caribbean neighborhood. Now, I’ve moved over to a less Caribbean part.

M: Grandma was hanging out the window serving corn soup. It was an amazing experience and I wasn’t ready for it. I was all bundled up. Obviously, New York is cold, but there were so many people in there that it was hot and they were going crazy.

J: Are you Caribbean?

M: No, my mom is African, and then my dad is Creole, but it’s just spicy Black. That’s why I just be like whatever you think I am, I just let people go with it and that’s how my lying started. I would just be like, “Yes, whatever you think.”

J: I guess it’s hard to know this because you only have one of the two experiences, but do you have any sense of what the going out and nightlife and social scene is at an HBCU versus a PWI? Do you feel like there’s specific differences in that way?

M: I went to both. Towson is a PWI and then Hampton-

J: Oh, did you transfer?

M: Yes. I went to both. I think that depending on your vibe, I will say at Towson, I didn’t realize why people partied that hard.

J: Which did you go to first? Did you go-

M: I went to Hampton first.

J: From an HBCU?

M: I went to Hampton out of high school to a PWI.

J: To a PWI.

M: The parties I was going to at Towson was my first experience partying with White people. I had a class with this guy. He was a frat guy. Again, since I went straight from high school, straight from my mama house to the HBCU. I had never talked to a White guy before. We had a class together and he was trying to pop his sh*t at me and he was like, “Yo, my frat’s having a party.” I’d been to frat parties before but Black frat parties. I was like, “Oh, it’s just like the movies. This is insane.” I thought this was a stereotype.

J: No, it’s crazy. It’s wild.

M: They were chugging kegs and they had fishes that they were daring people to swallow. I was like, “That”-

J: No.

M: I said, “I feel like I’ve seen that in an actual National Lampoon’s or American Pie-type movie.

J: Yes. Truly.

M: You know what, I will say I was probably the drunkest I’ve ever been though.

J: It’s dangerous. The jungle juice will get you.

M: I was going to say, and jungle juice is a thing. We do more straight shots. The sugar-


M: Yes. We were doing more like take a straight shot then whatever you chase it with. We definitely had juice-

J: You were drinking like adults at HBCs? You weren’t acting like children.

M: The jungle juice, I’m not a big fan of the taste of liquor, but the jungle just can get weird because it tastes good and you’re feeling it.

J: It’s so sweet.

M: I don’t think I could even think about doing it now. It would be so bad.

J: No, I couldn’t, I would get sick.

M: I have to prepare. I have to do BC powder. It’s so much I have to do. I drink Pedialyte before I go out. Especially, if I’m not-

J: Wait, what was the powder?

M: BC powder? It’s powdered aspirin. It looks like cocaine, but it’s not. Oh, another development at that party this girl was like, “Do you want a bump?” Girl, what is that?

J: Oh my God. That’s so funny.

M: Then, you know what I will say in Cali when I went back home and I started going out to the clubs. I had a friend, he’s Mexican and he’s gay and he was like a functioning coke ass. I was just like, “This is like, you know how when you get grown and you just realize that drug use is casual.” No judgment. If you can maintain your life and you’re on vibes, I love that for you. I just wasn’t aware.

J: I know. It’s wild. It is actually really shocking to see the ways in which — because it gets painted when you’re a kid as so dramatic and so intense and then you see it and it is so casual. I went out last night with my friend to the Eagle. It’s like a huge-

M: I feel like I have heard of it.

J: It’s a huge gay bar in New York. They’re in a lot of the major cities. I feel like there’s probably one in Houston, but they’re big gay bars that are usually a lot of the guys are dressed up in leather harnesses or shirtless and it’s usually a big dance floor. Then it’s fun. Anyway.

M: Vibes.

J: Vibes. I like, was talking to my friend, we were there, we were having drinks and sitting around. It’s just funny. You look around and remember realizing because it’s in Chelsea, Manhattan, which is a very wealthy neighborhood. It’s also interesting because I go to Brooklyn gay bars a lot more than I go to Manhattan gay bars. Even though they’re both in New York, the difference in diversity-

M: The vibe is different.

J: The difference in diversity, it’s just so much more White at a Manhattan gay bar. Not completely. It’s not 100 percent White, but I just think it’s so much more White and so much more traditional clean-cut White. I was just saying to him, it’s so crazy to be in this seedy leather bar gay dance party that in the movies would have been this underworld and realizing that everyone here is a lawyer. Do you know what I mean?

M: No. When I was dating in D.C. and I was-

J: People with money.

M: -dating lawyers, people with money, I was like, “Y’all are f*cking weird.”

J: Bizarre.

M: I don’t even think leather bars and sh*t is that weird.

J: No it’s not.

M: You just get around people with money and you’re just like, “This is some of the cult sh*t that y’all are into casually.”

J: It’s because I feel like it’s the more intense your work life is, and the more intense your week is, and the more intense or just mind-numbing. You’ve gone through the motions and have this job that’s like, whatever, where you make 300K a year and do whatever. It’s like, you need your weekends to give you a little more juice to get through. It’s like I guess you, to feel alive, do have to do a bunch of coke and run over a donkey or whatever that you need to do.

M: Literally. You know what, also, not to sound like this, I’ve been looking around, you obviously know the effects of long-term drug use. When you’re casually watching people who you work with do drugs on the weekend and they’re just like, “I know you, you’re a normal person, and you seem to be functioning and handling life well.” It’s like, “What’s the truth?”

J: I know. What’s the truth? Also, I don’t know, we’re still young. Let’s check in with how their own skin looks when they’re 40, when they’re 50.

M: I went out. I’ve been hanging out with everyone. I went to Hamburger Mary’s to celebrate one of my friends’ 45th birthday. I have a lot of friends who are older than me, and-

J: Me too.

M: -that’s the biggest thing. Is really watching how they take care of themselves. I will say my friends who are strait-laced and clean-cut look the best.

J: It’s unfortunately undeniable. The people who aren’t drinking, the people who are having fun but taking care of their bodies, they look f*cking good.

M: You can tell. You’re not a drinker, and it’s obvious. Water, skincare. I work in the beauty industry, so I’m not above Botox and lifting a face and all that sh*t. It definitely starts internally as well. You got to take care of yourself.

J: They always say the best treatment is prevention, and I’m just like, “I wish that wasn’t true.”

M: Listen, I tell people all the time there are certain things that I know. I wasn’t born to certain situations because I am so compulsive and because I am a liar. My mother is very religious. I was raised in a very conservative household. The way that I think now, if I had been raised by someone like me, I probably would have been off the cusp at this point.

J: Fully off the deep end.

M: Fully off the deep end. Just jumped head first. I know that.

J: I believe that we get put — you know what, I actually feel similarly. I wasn’t raised in a religious household, but I was raised in Vermont in the middle of f*cking nowhere. There was nothing to get into. Do you know what I mean?

M: Yes.

J: I’m like, “If there had been sh*t to get into, I would have gotten into it.”

M: I just know.

J: Because the thing is, I’m 30. I thought I was 30 when I was 19. Genuinely thought I was as smart as 30-year-olds when I was 19. Now I look back at me at 19 and I’m like, “I don’t think I could read fully.’ It was not fun. It’s really scary to think about — I just remember being young and thinking, “Oh, yes, every young person thinks they have it all figured out, but I actually think I do.” Now it’s like, only now am I like, “Oh, even at 30, I’m nowhere near having anything figured out.” I don’t think you ever are. I would have been like, “Oh yes, I can handle it. Let me get into —” I lived in a different country for a year. I was very independent and going all over with sh*t when I was young. If I had moved to New York when I was 18, it wouldn’t have been a good situation and I know that.

M: No, at least for me. I’m at this age where I do themed parties. Halloween is my favorite holiday. I love dressing up. Every year for my birthday, I do a costume party. This year is going to be old people.

J: Wait, when’s your birthday?

M: April 8th. Aries. We’re dressing up as old people because 27 is the year that I thought I was going to — I just thought at this f*cking old, I just thought I was going to be married. I was going to have a baby. I thought all these things, and here I am just barely doing things. Barely waking up, barely making it to this, trying to figure out how to get on the f*cking Zoom call.

J: You’re killing it, stop. You are the funniest person on TikTok.

M: Thank you. Sometimes even when I think about some of the situations I was in, in undergrad, I’m like, “Oh my God, that was so unsmart, that was so unsafe.”

J: Unintelligent.

M: I was a tinder-ella, and I just got my license last year, so I’ve never been a driver. I used to hop in anyone’s car.

J: That’s scary.

M: Quite literally, I used to hop in anyone’s car. Someone’s my friend, but it’s like, “Oh my God, girls have lost their lives hopping in cars and it’s just like-”

J: No, it’s scary. That is real scary.

M: Again, now I’m so mindful of letting people in my house but like I said, I had an apartment when I was in undergrad. I used to just let guys come over who I just slept with. Slide through. Some of the stuff I was doing, like, “Let’s go to your random friend’s house.” I’ve been in trap houses with people I’ve never seen again.

J: It’s not necessary, it’s not even like — and it was so fun.

M: We were sitting on the floor and we had an air mattress, it was terrible and it stunk.

J: You were drinking hot vodka.

M: Literally drinking Paul Masson.

J: What is Paul Masson?

M: It’s brandy. It’s like the freshman year drink, it’s like vodka, it’s like AMSI.

J: Is it a cheap version of-

M: Yes, it’s $13. It’s bad. I still like it from time to time because I feel nostalgic when I drink it but my friends are always like, “Be so f*cking for real, we’re not getting that.”

J: I need to google it so I can see the bottle to see if I know — is it P-A-U-L and then that’s-

M: Yes, Paul Masson, it’s double SS.

J: Oh, here we go.

M: The redberry peach was personally my go-to. It mixes very well with juice.

J: Oh, I know exactly what this is. You like the redberry peach. OK, good to know. I’ll do a shot of it in your honor and tell you what I think.

M: Thank you. People will laugh at you for it. If I make a TikTock right now like, “Jake doesn’t know what Paul Masson is but I still like it,” they’re absolutely going to get in my comments and be like, “What the f*ck? Why would you ever tell him about Paul Masson?” It’s not funny. They will.

J: I drink very little brandy in my life. Maybe that’s my next phase.

M: I do date older men and I’ve noticed that older men are really into brandy, it’s a thing.

J: Do you know what that probably means, that you and I should start investing because old people sh*t gets — it’s going to become cool in the next few years for young people to drink brandy, let me you that right now.

M: Yes, I know.

J: It’s going to get into brandy.

M: Oh, my God, bro, I don’t know what’s going on.

J: Gen Z is going into Courvoisier and what’s the other one, the other popular drink?

M: I’m already into Courvoisier, to be honest.

J: OK, that’s fair.

M: I’m only into Courvoisier because my parents are older. My parents are 100 percent baby boomers. My dad was born in 1950 and my mom was born in 1957, so not only are they super conservative religious, but they’re old. I’ve been on the internet doing too much for a while now.

J: How do you like to drink Courvoisier?

M: I like a straight shot. I’m at the age where I like to chase it with water because it’s finally hitting me like the headaches and the bullsh*t the next day so I try to avoid that. I will not go to work. See, that’s my other problem, I will literally be like, “I cannot move, y’all.”

J: That sucks.

M: I’m not into making my body move when it can’t, it’s not my vibe. I just have to prevent these types of things.

J: It sounds like you are maturing and growing. It sounds like we’re developing.

M: Yes, because there was a point where I was throwing back three Four Lokos like a madman.

J: Did you say three?

M: Jake, I wasn’t lying to you when I said, I’m so happy that I-

J: Wait, no, but hold on, you’re not old enough. These weren’t the real ones, right?

M: The real Four Loko, I did have a real Four Loko when I was in high school, that scarred me so bad that I didn’t drink — no, listen. I had one of the original Four Loko when I was 14. One of my friends had an older sister.

J: Which means had you not, you’d probably be like 5’10. Honestly, it’s such a — you drink one of those at 14, that’s shaving four inches off your height.

M: It was so traumatic, I did not drink again until I was 19.

J: Honestly, that’s a service to life.

M: No, my mother never had to worry about me drinking anything because I drank that for — and I remember I drank it on an empty stomach and all the things that you’re not supposed to do, I did. I was just at my friend’s house and we just threw it back and it tasted so good. I was like, “Oh, it looks like a Arizona.” I literally remember thinking, “Oh, this is like a Arizona.”

J: That was my freshman year of college. It was dangerous. Then when they outlawed them, people started stockpiling them and then selling them illegally. You would go to houses to buy Four Loko from a guy who had pallets of it in his room like you were buying coke.

M: I’d be thinking things are so great, but they’re not. That’s horrible, but that’s so, “Let’s go buy a Four Loko.” By the time I got to college, they had brought them back and they were a different formula, still very unchy in their vibe.

J: Concerning. I would say nothing you should be drinking three of.

M: My brother was living out here with me last year and he’s only two years younger than me. He was like 23. I opened the fridge and saw a pack of Four Lokos in there and I said, “Get this out of my house”.

J: A pack, not even just a single-

M: Not even just a single one.

J: -he purchased a pack.

M: I was like, “Are you OK?” It wasn’t even funny. I went to his room immediately and was like, “Bro, what are you going through? What’s happening?”

J: It’s actually really concerning.

M: He’s like, “Oh, I just felt like it’s about to be lit, da da da da da.” I was like, “No, no.”

J: It’s going to be an ambulance if you drink that.

M: We don’t have the time like that. You don’t have insurance, I’m serious.

J: Actually, they shouldn’t ID you for Four Lokos. They should ask you for a health insurance card.

M: They should ask you if you have health insurance because you’re going to end up in the hospital.

J: That is so true. I think a lot of the hospitalizations that happened my freshman year of college were due to Four Loko. I actually think that’s 100 percent true.

M: This is a Four Loko hate account.

J: No, absolutely. Just objectively it’s so funny to look back and be like, “OK, it was fully marketed to 14-year-olds. They made it look like it was an iced tea can. It’s in an aqua flash print.”

M: Thank you. I feel vindicated right now because I remember being that 14-year-old, I was like, “Oh, this is like a Arizona,” and I remember my homegirl’s sister just started laughing.

J: She was like, “This girl’s about to die.”

M: This girl was into some sh*t. Remember I said we were raised really religious. She lost her virginity at 16, but let her parents still make her do the purity ball. The running joke in our friend group was, “Your purity ring’s broken, it’s not working.” She was the cool older big sister who was like, “We’re all these church kids,” and she was doing sh*t-

J: Oh my God.

M: -and not getting caught.

J: That’s so funny. Wait, what religion were you raised in?

M: Christian.

J: What exactly?

M: Baptist.

J: Baptist. OK.

M: Intense, we yell.

J: Oh, is it the speaking in tongues?

M: Yes, we do that and then catching the Holy Ghost is a thing. The dancing, the choir. Honestly, I like going to church now, mostly for the music because the music is like f*cking lit. The extras, I’m more of like a spiritual person, everything’s interconnected.

J: Is that the one that some of the services happened late on a weekend night?

M: Yes. Baptist is the one where you can be in church for four or five hours.

J: Because I remember one time when I lived uptown, which doesn’t mean anything to you, but I lived in really far uptown Manhattan when I first moved to New York for three years. I was f*cked up, I was drunk or stoned, but I walked in on accident. I didn’t walk in, but I came up and thought I heard screaming like someone was being attacked. I was like, “Oh my God.”

M: I know where this is going.

J: Walked in and was standing in the doorway of a church where people were losing their minds screaming and flailing and I was crying.

M: Is everybody OK? What can I do?

J: It was one in the morning. It was really wild and I just stood there for a second and I was like, I have to go home.

M: I have to get out of here. Yes, it happens. It’s a thing.

J: God bless it.

M: Luckily my mom is really — she was never — and I always joke with her and say, “Thank you for never embarrassing me in that way.” Because I’m one of those people who it’s like, I get very embarrassed and she never caught the Holy Ghost. She was always the person just there to fan. She was just a fan or just helping the dramatic person out. I just constantly, “Thank you for being that way.”

J: Thank you for never having a religious experience. It would’ve been really embarrassing for me.

M: It would’ve been super embarrassing for me. Thank you so much.

J: Wait, this is interesting to me because you get embarrassed, but you’re also messy. That’s an interesting combination.

M: I get secondhand embarrassment. I don’t get embarrassment from myself.

J: If you’re at a party, you’ll be the center of attention and do crazy sh*t, but if your friend did it, you’d be like, “Cut that out.”

M: Stop it. It’s a weird dynamic, but it works. See, since my humor is dry, I say off-the-wall things, but it could be a joke or I can say it real monotone. It doesn’t come off as crazy as insane. As a comedian, your delivery is everything. I wouldn’t consider myself a comedian, but my dad did standup, so I’m really into the delivery of things.

J: I would say you’re a comedian. You put sh*t on the internet that thousands of people laugh at. It’s very, very funny.

M: Thank you. I might put comedian in my bio now.

J: There you go.

M: I have in my bio the Samuel L. Jackson of TikTok because someone commented, “I love you because I never know what your videos are going to be about. You’re just doing things. You’re literally like Samuel L. Jackson. This could be anything.”

J: That’s so funny. Wait, I actually felt so crazy. Someone commented on one of my videos the other day. Because you get too many comments to see everything. Randomly something will catch your eye and you’re like, “OK.” I opened TikTok and I got a comment that says, “Wow, big Vince Vaughn energy.” Do you think I’ve ever once in my life — I’m staring at it for 20 minutes. I’m like, “Me?”

M: You know what, this is only funny because I love pop culture. Maybe now people don’t know who Vince Vaughn is. Vince Vaughn was such a specific era. Him dating Jennifer Aniston, all that sh*t.

J: Dating everyone.

M: Why was he doing that? He’s not hot.

J: He’s strong and he’s funny. Honestly, Vince Vaughn was like a Pete Davidson, a tall and funny.

M: Oh, my God. Vince Vaughn was Pete Davidson. Owen Wilson gives more Pete Davidson at that time. Vince Vaughn is definitely a hard second.

J: There’s just always going to be a tall, funny guy who’s getting away with sh*t. That’s just the truth.

M: You know what, the equivalent I have to that is one time, someone in my comments said I looked like Tiny, T.I.’s wife. Literally stuck. You’re laughing because you know what she looks like. Especially the more followers I get, I try not to respond. It has to be something witty. It has to be something that I know is going to land. When people are just being mean, I no longer respond to those. I remember I responded to that and said, “I just think that you think all light-skinned women with big noses look alike because there’s just not-”

J: You don’t look like her.

M: You don’t give Vince Vaughn energy. You see the line and how they got there and see why it’s so wrong.

J: It’s just like, the line should be this wide and the one they used to connect us is this wide.

M: They look separate. You created a lane, like three. A whole three-lane strip. Why?

J: It’s the sh*t that people — every once in a while, you’ll just get dragged and you’re like, “Damn, this is brutal.” If they’re funny, though, it’s good.

M: You know what, I was talking to another mutual about this, and I was like, “This is not to say that I understand celebrity at a huge Kardashian or Beyonce level, but no one really prepares you for people to start critiquing you at the level at which people will critique you. To the point where, first of all, I’m so mindful of everything I say now because people remember the things that we say. It’s like, “Oh, call back, da, da, da, da, but you said this, da, da, da, da, da.” That’s why I’ve had to just say, “Guys, I’m a liar.” Some of the sh*t you’re calling back, it was never true, to begin with, so let’s start there. also, people noticing things in the background of your home, it’s just-

J: I’m very mindful. You’re not seeing my house, you’re not seeing my bedroom. You’re seeing one wall. You’re seeing one corner.

M: I keep my areas in my house very like, “Y’all know this area, but I can’t take you around my entire house. It’s just not happening.”

J: No.

M: Yes. Do you get recognized a lot in public?

J: I think I do in New York, just because I think when I was doing more character videos, so many of those were New York characters that I think a lot of my following built in New York. I’ll get recognized in Brooklyn. It’s not every day, it’s multiple times a week for sure. It is mindful to the point where I’m like — the thing I do think about is, “Oh yes, I do need to be mindful of —” Not that this is the thing I would ever want, but I have had the thought, “Oh, you can’t be drunk in public.” Because there’s a chance that someone will be like, “That’s Jake.” Someone could know my first and last name and be like, “That guy’s Jake, and he’s really drunk.” I’m a little bit more mindful of not being sloppy or not-

M: Yes, not being sloppy. I feel like that’s where I get recognized the most. When I’m out and I’m lit, I just tell them, “I’m drunk. Nice to meet you.” That’s my go-to. Also, I work in a spa, so when I work in a spa in a mixed area, honestly, that’s not really a Black client clientele, but that’s a big base of mine. It’s always funny when the Black girls come in and they’re like, “Hey, hi.” Funny story. We have huge glass windows and a girl walked past and she stared in and she was dressed in a tracksuit and sneakers and my front desk looked at her and like, “Can I help you?” The way that you can see my office, she was staring back. She scared my homegirl, my front desk because she thought the girl was coming in there to fight me. She was like, “Is that Mecca?” She was like, “Why do you need to know?” Imagine my front desk, this White, this girl, she was like-

J: That is scary.

M: -“I thought we were going to fight and I was ready.” I was like, “Honestly, I love that you were prepared. I f*ck with you.”

J: That is good. That’s a good friend, but that’s so funny. It can be a little scary. I know what you’re talking about. When someone — if their energy is really intense right off the bat.

M: Yes. I feel like, you know what, that’s honestly been the only really off-the-wall experience I’ve had where their energy was intense. Honestly, it was just because the girl was staring so hard and then once I was like, “Hey girl,” and she broke into a smile, so it relaxed.

J: I’ve had very few bad ones. I’ve had very, very few bad ones.

M: I was going to say, I did recently have someone come up to me on a date and I had to put a PSA out. Like, “Guys, I know I talk about my dating life on here, but when I’m on the date, you cannot come up and say, is this such and such?” Because now-

J: Yo, why do you even have to explain that? People are so stupid. That’s so f*cking crazy.

M: I think my face, I’m a facial expression person, so I’m really mindful of coming off as mean. Do you get what I’m saying?

J: 100 percent.

M: No. I don’t want anyone to ever say, “Mecca’s a b*tch.” That’s never my intention, but I was with someone who I haven’t even talked about, this was literally a first date and she said, “Oh, is that that green and white boy?” I was like, “First of all, he’s East African and the features are so completely different that I don’t even know how we landed here.”

J: What the f*ck?

M: Let’s not do that.

J: Let’s not.

M: Very nice to meet you. Then on top of that, I’m just now getting to the point where on Hinge — oh, on Hinge, the guys are like, “Are you that girl from TikTok?” That just started happening in the last maybe two weeks. I’ve been really flying under the radar with it for so long that the guys I talk to don’t have TikTok. People are coming up to me and I’d be playing it off like, “Oh, I just know a lot of people.”

J: The dating of it is tricky.

M: It’ll happen. It’s whatever.

J: It’s not the end of the world, but it can be a little tricky.

M: It is like, why are you asking me that? That’s not sexy.

J: I get it because it’s hard to be like, “When do you bring it up?” If someone’s just like, “Oh, I’ve seen your videos before,” I’m like, “Great.” Then we move on and then that’s truly, that’s all it means to me. That’s really what it means to me.

M: I hate when it’s the opening line though.

J: I don’t hate it, I don’t love it, but I do think it needs to be brought up fairly early. Just, “Hey, by the way, I’ve seen your videos.”

M: I honestly like when they act like they don’t know what’s going on.

J: Respect, respect, respect.

M: Honestly, the guys that I’ve been talking to are so hyper-masc and hate it. Like, “I don’t have TikTok, I’m a man,” so it’s like, “Oh that works.” Love that energy actually. Never make a TikTok.

J: Never make a TikTok. They literally don’t know. They’re like, “How did you ‚—” They never know that you have a full-

M: Though, the level at which I’ve downplayed my TikTok to guys is funny.

J: I respect that. You’re a liar.

M: Let’s bring it back to the core.

J: We’ve come to the end. This was such a dream, such a joy. I’m so glad you did the show.

M: Thank you.

J: The way we end it is that if you would like, we can plan a night out together.

M: Oh, my God.

J: Perhaps the next time you come to New York.

M: Yes. I’m thinking about coming to New York in the next couple of months. I’m absolutely down for-

J: Oh, my God

M: No. I’m super-duper down for that.

J: My first thought, based on what you have been saying, is that I just found out that my neighborhood is getting a new Caribbean gay bar. That could be really a beautiful unity of everything you’re talking about.

M: All of the things.

J: It’s opening in the next couple of months. If you come in a few months, it should have just opened.

M: They’ll have the food. I need attitudes at the register, though. Because if there’s no attitude, then the food’s not going to be good.

J: I can take you to a counter, a patty shop beforehand and we can get-

M: I need to leave there feeling so small.

J: We can do that. I know where to go for that in Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights.

M: Caribbean. I know exactly what I’ll wear.

J: Perfect.

M: Something tight, something mesh, so that when I’m winding, you can really get the figure. You can really get into-

J: I’ll wear a button-up and jeans. I’m just kidding.

M: You will literally sweat through your button-up. You’ll probably end up taking it off at one point.

J: They’ll recreate Yik Yak to roast me at the Caribbean bar.

M: Honestly, that’s how Caribbean parties go. People end up fully naked, so it’s fine.

J: Perfect. Wow. That was an easy plan, but I think that is the perfect plan for us.

M: That is. I look forward to it, Jake. OMG.

J: Oh, my God. Thank you so much for doing the show.

M: Thank you for having me.

J: Bye.

M: Bye.

J: We did it.

Thank you so much for listening to Going Out With Jake Cornell. If you could please go and review us on whatever you’re listening to this on, that would be really gorgeous for me in a huge way, so thank you.

Now, for some credits. Going Out With Jake Cornell is recorded in New York City and produced by Keith Beavers and Katie Brown. The music you’re hearing is by Darby Cicci. The cover art you’re probably looking at was photographed by M Cooper and designed by Danielle Grinberg. A special shout-out to VinePair co-founders Josh Malin and Adam Teeter for making all of this possible.