This week, Jake goes out with comedian and actor Holmes. The two discuss gay Republicans, male OBGYNs, and roadkill. Tune in for more.

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Jake Cornell: Welcome to Going Out With Jake Cornell. I am Jake Cornell coming to you from Brighton, England. I’m going to be back in New York soon. So soon. I’m so excited. With me as always is my producer. I’m on two brain-

Katie Brown: I’m a dude producer.

J: It’s like what Joe Rogan calls his producer.

K: Exactly.

J: You are Katie Brown. I’m not in Scotland anymore. I’m back in England. I feel really good about it.

K: You just did that intro fully at 1.5 speed.

J: Yeah. I just want to get it out of the way.

K: Yeah, that’s fair.

J: We’re here for the conversation. It’s like, this is a problem when you and I start the conversation before the podcast starts recording. It’s like the intro doesn’t feel organic.

K: It doesn’t.

J: So it’s just like, let’s get it out of the way.

K: Yeah. Yeah.

J: And then just get straight into it.

K: So you’re telling me that you’re pretty happy to not be in Scotland anymore.

J: Yeah. I was ready to go. I was ready to go. And then not anti-Edinburgh. I miss Kate’s dearly. Kate’s was my favorite part, but it’s like, first of all, there’s cold brew in Brighton. There is like, there’s actually cold brew in Brighton, which is really huge for me.

K: Major.

J: It’s a little warmer. It’s a little more… It’s just like, Edinburgh is beautiful and old and Brighton is beachy and pretty and cute. And I just was in a space to receive that.

K: That makes a lot of sense. Wait, how do you know people that live there?

J: Because this is where I lived when I lived here for a year.

K: Right. Okay. So you made these friends while you were living abroad?

J: Yeah, and they all kind of stayed because it’s a really sick town. Yeah.

K: Don’t blame them.

J: Yeah. Not all of them are here, but my core besties are pretty much all still here.

K: That’s awesome.

J: And the ones who aren’t like are nearby in Worthing and London, so they just come.

K: That sounds so lovely.

J: Yeah. So I’m here and then tomorrow I go to London and I’m staying in a nice hotel for two nights to treat myself, God bless. And then I fly back.

K: Do you know where you’re eating yet? Do you have reservations?

J: No. I’m going out with my friend, Michelle, and if she wants to go somewhere… Apparently the hotels in my restaurant or… Nope, the restaurants in my hotel are really good. So I’m into the idea of doing that. But if she has somewhere she wants to take me, I’ll go with her. I’m kind of like, I don’t want to over-plan it. I’m going to wake up tomorrow, walk to the train station, jump on a train and get there. I want to get to the hotel right at 2 for check in and then just bit bop for two days and really see where my life takes me sort of vibes.

K: I love that. Jake, there’s so many good museums. I don’t know if you’re a museum person.

J: I did the Tate when I was there before I went to Scotland, because I was in London for two days before I did the Tate. So I would do another art museum.

K: The V&A museum, Victoria and Albert museum.

J: Is that old art?

K: Yeah.

J: I do find that boring. If I am being perfectly honest. I do prefer modern.

K: Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Old art is boring. I get it. Famously people hate old art.

J: It’s interesting, but it’s like all, I don’t know. I sound uneducated and that’s because I am.

K: No, I mean I would fully know nothing about art. I just go to the museums and I’m like, “Ooh, Ooh, Ooh.” I don’t know what I’m looking at, but.

J: I’m never turned on by the portrait halls, though. Where it’s all the Baroque and Renaissance portraits. That’s really not hitting it for me.

K: That’s funny. The V&A’s cool because they have lots of sculpture too. And they organize it with sculpture.

J: Okay I f*cks with sculpture.

K: Okay. Go look at it. They also have a coffee shop in it that’s cute. And it’s near a bunch of other cool places to go. So if you don’t like it, you can go somewhere else.

J: Okay. I’m going to investigate that. I’m going to investigate that.

K: What were you up to last weekend?

J: The thing about fringe is that it’s fully “Groundhog Day.” Every day you just wake up, go do your show, go out and party all night and hang out with people and then go home and do it again. So it was very much that again, I’ve said it. I said it last week. I’ll say it again. I am doing sober September when I get back.

K: Yes. Starting tomorrow.

J: Starting September 3rd.

K: Oh September 3rd. Right. Right.

J: Starting September 3rd. I’m so excited to go to… I want to go to the gym for three… I just need to reset my body. It wasn’t that bad, but I’m just like, I need to get back into the thing.

K: Well, I also think when you’re not at your own home, you end up just eating not great food because you’re, I mean, not that it’s not good food, but it’s like, when you’re not cooking for yourself, you end up just feeling gross.

J: I’m cooking so much. I miss cooking so much.

K: I’ve been on a cooking kick lately and I’ve been cooking.

J: Good for you.

K: I know. I know. It’s mostly because I looked at my credit card bill and I was like, “Ooh.” But yeah.

J: Don’t start it. Don’t even get me started.

K: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So cooking it is, but-

J: Wait, earnest question. Ernest question. So wait, but don’t you find that you go grocery shopping to cook here and you’re like, “This was just as expensive.”

K: Yes.

J: Or you being cheap?

K: No. I mean, if you go to Trader Joe’s, it’s not that bad, but also it’s like, “Do I want to go to Trader Joe’s when everybody else is in line and it’s really scary in there sometimes?”

J: It’s tough. It’s really tough. You come to Trader Joe’s shop, but then it also, don’t you, this is me and my broken psychology. But then when I spend a hundred bucks on Trader Joe’s for the week and I have all this food, yes, it’s nice, but it’s also a little claustrophobic because it’s like, now I know it’s wasteful if I go out and do something with a friend, because dinner is at home rotting. Do you know what I mean?

K: Yes. Yes. Definitely. I’ve just kind of made it my goal for this week to try and cook every day for dinner.

J: I really respect that. Do you actually enjoy the process?

K: I do like cooking. I like cooking when it’s just for myself or I like cooking for myself and Blake or something. But I don’t like cooking for a big group because then you-

J: Oh no, that’s not fun.

K: That’s not fun. I like cooking for myself or myself and one or two other people. But yeah, it’s relaxing. Especially for me doing something with… I like to paint too. And I’m not good at painting, but just anything I can do with my hands that’s productive. And then at the end there’s like a newer thing. I like that. So with cooking-

J: Wait. Okay. What? Sorry. No go. I keep on interrupting you.

K: No, I was just going to say with cooking, that’s how I feel. It depends if I’m in the mood, but if I’m in the mood, I really like it.

J: Have you ever gone to that, sorry. The doing things with your hand thing in the painting thing. Have you gone to the paint and sip place on Houston?

K: No, I haven’t been. Is it good?

J: I’ve never. Okay. Well it’s just like, okay. I’ve been like, I find paint and sip so fascinating-

K: I do too.

J: I’m like, okay, I’m not trying to be a b*tch, but I saw them. I was like, “You’re lame.” Yeah. When I first saw them, I was like, “These are lame.” And it looked like this thing that was in the suburbs that moms were doing. Which I’m like, and here’s my thing. I’m like, “I’m not going to go. But if everyone’s having fun, God bless.” And then it became this thing that I feel like chugey millennials were doing. I hate that I use those two words like that is how I’m trying to describe, where they were like “doing the paint and sip.” And it’s like people who are my age who are already fully suburban moms. And I was like, “This is intense.” And then it’s somehow reversed. I’ve never seen something like reverse get cool where it was popular among that population. And then I’m walking and there’s a full… Do you know the bar I’m talking about?

K: No.

J: It’s on Houston, a block or two east of the DeKalb Market. Not DeKalb Market. Of the Regal, the Essex Market, Essex Market.

K: Oh, okay.

J: It’s on the south side of Houston, a few blocks over and it’s huge. And I’m like, “This is a gigantic bar space that they’ve made into a paint and sip bar,” which is shocking to me. And sometimes I walk by and the thing is, ladies, leave your man at home. The club is jumping, jumping. Packed.

K: Really, and they’re cool looking people, not…?

J: I mean, they kind of look like the people that I think are slowly ruining Manhattan. Yes. But it’s busy and they’re young people, but it’s like, I just find it fascinating. And I’m like, who are… I just want to know one person who’s going and being like, “Is it fun?” Do you know what I would do and I’ve always thought this and I understand why I would be a lot more work and it takes a lot more work because I would never do a paint and sip literally in my life. You couldn’t pay me. There’s actually one that happens at a gay bar in… Oh wait, nobody. I think it’s drawing. There’s like one that’s new drawing and drinking at a gay bar in Brooklyn. That sounds kind of cool.

K: That sounds fun.

J: But there’s an erotic element to that. So I think that’s part of it. Yeah. I would absolutely do a pottery one with the clay and that looks fun as f*ck. Whenever I watched, I used to do that one and they loved it. Gina texting Keith, once again.

K: Gina needs to literally leave us alone.

J: But it’s like clay. I used to love that so much when I was a kid.

K: I loved playing with clay.

J: I watched videos of it on TikTok all the time. I would do that in a bar in two seconds.

K: Yeah, there’s a place that opened not far from my apartment that’s called Puff N Paint. And it’s like, I guess exactly what you think. It’s weed and painting instead.

J: That makes infinite more sense to me.

K: I think that makes a lot more sense. I wouldn’t pay to do that because I just do that in my apartment.

J: 100 percent.

K: But anyway I think that makes a lot more sense especially when you think about the two things going together a little bit more. I don’t want to get, like, wine…

J: But you actually just kind of nailed on the head the whole thing that I don’t really get about it, is why are we… It’s like, that’s such an activity that you would go to a friend’s house to do that’s intimate. Do you know what I mean?

K: Yeah.

J: Part of going to a bar is either… I don’t even know what I’m trying to say, but it’s like, there’s other people there. There’s music, there’s dancing, there’s commingling. It’s like, you’re talking, this is a bar where everyone has an assigned seat and an easel.

K: And it’s also, it’s not, as far as I know, it’s not like everyone’s just going to paint whatever they want. It’s like there’s a person in the front that’s telling you step by step how to paint the same thing and everyone’s painting the same thing.

J: Yeah. It’s really strange.

K: Yeah, to me that’s just like-

J: I don’t get-

K: It’s not fun. Just yeah, no.

J: Okay. Wait, sorry. I have a hard pivot, but I need to talk to you about something.

K: Okay.

J: That made it sound more serious than it is.

K: I see.

J: So I’m in Hove right now, which is the other part of Brighton. It’s like the city’s called Brighton and Hove. They’re two different cities right next to each other. Anyway, I walked-

K: The twin cities famously.

J: What?

K: The twin cities.

J: Is that a thing?

K: I don’t know.

J: Okay. Wait, what are the twin cities? I feel I’ve heard that term before.

K: It’s like the twin cities in Minnesota. St. Paul and Minneapolis.

J: I know literally nothing. Yeah, sure. It’s just like that.

K: It’s the same.

J: ​​Basically I walked here and it took a half an hour. My point is, right before I got here, I got catcalled by a drunk woman who was at a pub. And she was like, “Ooh, looking good. That rugby shirt.” And I was like, “Okay, loving this.” And then as I walked, she was like, “But stop wiggling. You wiggle too much while you walk.” I was like, “What does that mean?” Do you perceive me as wiggling while I walk? I’m dead serious.

K: Well now I really want to see you walk, so.

J: No, I’m freaking the f*ck out.

K: You wiggle.

J: The entire rest of the walk I was like, “Wait, how do I walk? What am I doing wrong?” I’m trying to widen my legs. I’m literally, I’m like “Wiggle. What do you mean?”

K: Do you get catcalled by women often?

J: I can think of two times this year it’s happened.

K: Does it feel flattering or what does it feel like?

J: Yes.

K: Yeah.

J: Catcalling has also made me… This one was a little more… No. But both times it felt perfectly nice.

K: I love that. Does it feel the same way if it’s like a guy doing it or does that not really happen?

J: I’ve never been… They all feel fine.

K: They all feel fine. Wow. Okay. That’s good. Male privilege.

J: Well, yeah. There isn’t a threat of assault and violence behind people expressing attraction towards the man in the way that there often is towards women.

K: Yeah. Yes, that’s true. I’ve had some very interesting ones, but one time a guy just screamed at me, “I hope you have a good day.” And I was like-

J: God bless.

K: “Thanks.”

J: One time, the first week I moved to New York, I was standing on the subway platform in my old neighborhood. And I saw this guy make eye contact with me and he looked really angry and I was like, “F*ck, what did I do?” And then I look over and he was walking up to me and I was like, “F*ck, what is going to happen?” I’m so nervous. And then he came over and he leaned in close and I was like, “I’m about to get f*cked up.” And then he was like, “Nice butt.” Oh. I was like, “Oh, thank you.” And then he walked away and I was like, “Jesus f*cking Christ.”

K: You wiggled away. So wait, last weekend I was in Philly visiting Blake and whenever I go there it’s like me, a bunch of med students and then usually their partners. Most of them are a little older than us, so they live with their partners and a lot of their partners are also students, not med students, but doing other things.

J: Like grad program students?

K: Yeah, whatever. So I was talking to this girl and she was like, “Yeah, I’m getting my Ph.D. right now.” And I was like, “Okay.”

J: Freak.

K: Yeah, freak. And I was like, “In what?” And she goes “Bioengineering.” Can you try and tell me-

J: In that tone?

K: No, she just said “bioengineering,” but can you tell me what you think that would be, what a bioengineer is?

J: I would assume it means you’re working with things that work inside biological systems. So a robotic heart or a pacemaker or medicine.

K: This is what I told her. I was like, “Does that mean that you make little robot bugs? Like little-”

J: Nanobots?

K: Little baby bug robots. And she was like, “No, it doesn’t mean that.”

J: I don’t like her, I don’t like her vibe.

K: Yeah. I know.

J: I don’t like her vibe. Wait, but what does she do?

K: She tried to explain it to me. I still don’t really know, but I just-

J: Was what I just guessed close?

K: No.

J: Medicine and medical stuff?

K: It was weirdly, it’s not anything about robots, which was like, what I thought it would be. It’s not robot heart, either. It’s like-

J: Is it like medicine?

K: No, but also it’s like, how could she become a Ph.D.…

J: Wait. I’m doing it right now. Now I’m upset. I thought I don’t like-

K: No, I don’t fully understand. Her boyfriend was there too and he was like, “I don’t think anyone really knows what it is. ” I was like, “What?”

J: Bioengineering? Oh, biological engineering is the application of principles of biology and the tools of engineering to create usable, tangible, economically viable products.

K: Tell me what that actually is. This is what I don’t understand. People will try to tell you what they do for work and they’ll say it in such a convoluted way with a bunch of buzzwords that don’t mean anything. And I really just want to know on a day to day, are you making bug robots?

J: Oh, I think it’s GMOs, genetically modified foods and sh*t. And the people that are growing the meat in the labs.

K: So she’s going to become a doctor of that? I don’t really get-.

J: You want a doctor of English.

K: It’s so weird. I don’t get that. Whatever. That was my little interesting tidbit that I learned. I still think she does robot bugs, but…

J: Yeah. Wait, so what do those people, what is their discipline called?

K: The robot bug people?

J: Yeah.

K: That’s a really good question. I don’t know if anyone’s making robot bugs. I think I would’ve made that up.

J: Okay. Well I’m going to go look that up. We should probably let the listeners listen to the episode. This episode was one of the hardest I’ve laughed in recording. This person is one of the funniest people that I’ve ever met. Every single time they’re in the room, they make me laugh so hard, it’s like not okay. Their TV show, “Welcome To Flatch,” is coming back for another season. I think Sept. 30th. It’s on Fox. The first season is on Hulu. Go watch it. They are so funny. The show is so funny. Please enjoy me going out with Holmes.

Holmes: And it’s what we can keep is I think gay people, first example, they would never call themselves queer. So gay men who are Republicans, I feel that they normally don’t have a lot of other gay friends.

J: Yeah. So when I have encountered a Republican gay man, what I normally—

H: You’re like first we’re kissing.

J: Okay. Yeah. Well.

H: Sorry.

J: One time I was having sex with a man, and I will put this on the podcast. One time I was having sex with a man and mid-sex I did look up and make dead full blown eye contact with his Ronald Reagan poster that I had not noticed until we were fully having sex. And then just in the moment I was like, “I can’t address this right now. I don’t know what to do.”

H: Oh no.

J: And so then he texted me two days later and was like, “Hey, fun time the other night.” And I was like, “Um.”

H: You’re like, “Let’s talk on the poster.”

J: Yeah. “Can I ask about something?” And he was like, “What?” And I was like, “So you have a giant poster of Ronald Reagan above your bed.” And this was years ago and so he literally was like, “Yeah, I think he was a really great president. Don’t worry, I’m voting for Hillary, though.”

H: Oh my God.

J: And then I took a vow of celibacy, and I’ve never f*cked since.

H: I’m honestly in my celibate era.

J: I’m in my celibate era.

H: I really am. You’re doing a bit on it, but I actually am. Honestly, it’s been so funny because I broke up with my ex-boyfriend for a million reasons. But I also broke up with him just because I was just like, “Oh, if we can’t be poly, I definitely need to have sex with a woman again. I can tell that’s not done for me.”

J: Yeah. We talked about that.

H: Exactly. You’re like, “Don’t repeat it for the pod.”

J: No, I do not. I’m just reminding myself.

H: No, I just mean that when the Roe v. Wade stuff was overturned the other day, it was like one… Because I really romanticized my past relationships where I’m like, “Oh, I’d be being held right now if I didn’t break up.” All that stuff.

J: A hundred percent.

H: When this happened, I was just like, “Oh my God, that is at least one thing I don’t have to stress on.”

J: Oh, you were like, “Yeah.” You were like, “Hey guys, I know this is so bad for-”

H: When your rights are gone.

J: You’re like, “Guys, this is so bad for society. For me personally, it’s so validating.”

H: I’m like, “I know y’all are out grieving, but I’m getting balloons.” No, I was obviously devastated in a lot of ways and I still am doing my celibacy thing kind of in the wake of it a little bit. But it was just one of those things of when I get lonely now it’s nice to know there’s one layer that’s better.

J: Yeah. Absolutely. One less thing to worry about.

H: Because it’s hard. It’s already hard for someone who has ADD to me to focus during sex in general. One thing like a poster can take me away.

J: You’re like, “I like to be blindfolded, but purely because I can’t get distracted.”

H: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I’m like, “Describe your body.” No. But it honestly feels like that. And so it’s one of those things where it’s that plus thinking about the baby thing, way more extreme. I can’t.

J: No, I can’t. Actually, every time I’m reminded, and we need to change topics because we can’t do an hour on Roe right now.

H: No, no, no. Let’s not even talk about it.

J: No, no, but-

H: Nothing’s wrong. Nothing’s wrong.

J: Whenever I’m reminded that straight people have to worry about babies in correlation to sex, I’m like, “That’s the craziest sh*t I’ve ever heard in my life.” That’s so crazy. I’ve never once.

H: I know.

J: My best friend’s gay and we were with our straight friends-

H: Anyway.

J: Brag. And he literally was out to dinner and he went, “Wait, when straight people wear sex. Is that more about babies than it’s about STDs?” And my straight friend was like, “Absolutely.” And he was literally mind blown.

H: No, it’s really, really scary. Because you do have to think about more than one thing. But all in all life is easier for straights.

J: A hundred percent.

H: I really get to play which one fits the room. When I travel, I’m straight to keep it safe. When I’m in my hometown, I keep it gay. No, I think that we won’t talk about Roe anymore. But I will say that I’m not good at safe sex I would say compared to you, and I’m okay with that being around. I wasn’t the best at it because condoms are like, it’s already hard to have sex with a dick and then a condom makes it hurt more. It’s like what’s going on here?

J: I have a lot of thoughts about condoms. Number one, I actually think… I see this all the time and I don’t understand why I haven’t gotten an answer on it. It’s like you go to the condom aisle and there are condoms and then there are ultra-thin condoms. And I’m like, once those are invented don’t you just get rid of the other ones? Do you know what I mean? Why are we doing this? It’s like, “Hey, we found a better one. You can buy the thicker one if you want it.” But they’re like, “It’s just as safe for this thin one.” It’s like, okay, then just get the thin one. What are we doing?

H: I feel like those are for straight dudes who know that they cum so fast. I’ve been falling in love with someone and when they go inside me, all of a sudden they cum. It’s one of those things where some straight guys who I think are good boys don’t cum enough on their day to day. So they need to really fake one to just make it seem like they’re better sex.

J: Yeah, but wait.

H: Yeah. There’s no dental dams. I just went to Planned Parenthood for the first time in eight years, get it together.

J: Brag.

H: And I mean, it’s really a stressful visit. Especially because-

J: I literally have nothing to compare it to, truly nothing to compare it to.

H: When a guy… Let me just say this really quick. Okay. Here’s what happened, I thought a tampon was stuck in me. Okay. Because all the sudden dry blood kept coming out a week after I period. And I’d be like, this looks different. And I was like I’m not scared, but I’m not excited. So I dug and dug and it’s like, literally your p*ssy can be a different shape every day. Some days it’s a bread bowl in there and some days it’s a flute. You never know what you’re getting. And so I couldn’t find it. So I go to urgent care. I have this male doctor and they’re like, “Hey, we only have a male and staff. Are you okay with that?” And I was like-

J: Not a go.

H: “No, but I guess.” So I go in and he goes in and digs around. And it’s one of those things where when he-

J: The verb dig is so intense.

H: No, no, no. When he didn’t find a tampon, I was like, “You’re being arrested tonight.” I was like, “You’re under arrest. You’re a pervert.” You know what I mean? But he did the best he could, he couldn’t find one. But then he told me something insane. And this is actually real, but he literally goes like this. He goes… This is crazy. I’m sorry for taking up time with this.

J: No.

H: I have healed from this. I have healed from this.

J: I’m dying.

H: He goes… Because I’m like, “What the f*cks going on then?” And I’m sobbing. Right when he went inside me I’m sobbing, because I feel like it’s wrong that he’s in there, but he’s doing his job. And I’m being cool about it. I’m like, “I’m fine.” I’m sobbing. Okay. And then he’s like, “Basically every month an egg drops in you.” And he’s like, “Sometimes instead of it dropping, it can pop.”

J: Shut the f*ck.

H: No, no, no. Seriously. He really said this exact verbatim. I’m like, “Should I call my mom? It popped.” And he’s like, “No it’s okay.” And then I just decided to not think about it again. And then I did a standup show and I brought it up in front of the whole room and I was like, “Raise your hand if you’ve heard of this egg popping.” Not a single hand.

J: No, because he made that up.

H: My egg’s not popping, so that’s when I went to Planned Parenthood and they were like, “We’ve never heard of that.” Yeah. I know it’s really crazy. But anyways, I’m okay. Everything’s good. They said it was just stress, I guess. But when I was leaving, there’s only condoms, no dental dams, anything like that. And I just think it is so crazy because they kept telling me to use protection. I was like, “I’m mostly only having sex with women right now.” They’re like, “Still use protection.” And I’m like, “Why don’t we have a new tool? I’m not going to start licking like saran wrap.” What’s going on.

J: Yeah. No. And that’s really crazy is when they claim, oh it’s just… I understand safe sex is important. But the dental dam one specifically is… Or when they’re like, “Give head with a condom on.” I’m like, okay. So at some point that’s just like f*ck your stuffed pooh bear. What are we doing? Do you know what I mean?

H: Seriously. I’ve never had done oral sex with protection and-

J: Never, not once in my life.

H: But that sounds insane. If I was about to go down and someone and someone got out tin foil, I’d be like-

J: Tin foil.

H: “We should be friends. Let’s just be friends. I think we should be friends. I’m more risky than you in life. And that’s my problem to bear.” Yeah. It’s bad. I mean, this is like watch I’m seriously going to get an STD that’s never been found and you’re going to watch this back and be like, “Yeah, Holmes was pretty not good about being safe during sex.”

J: I recently found out that there’s a new one out on the prowl, that you have to ask to be tested for specifically. It’s not part of the standard rotation. And I got so f*cking annoyed.

H: You’re like the main symptom is dry blood coming out. I’m like “Oh great.” Wait, wait, wait, what is it?

J: It’s called egg popping. No, it’s called—

H: ​​You’re like, “It’s called birthday party.”

J: When my friend told me about it, I was like, “You made this up.” He was like, “I actually really didn’t and you should go get tested for it.” And I was like, “Okay, it’s called Mycoplasma genitalium.”

H: Mycoplasma genitalium?

J: Which is an absolute spell from Harry Potter.

H: That’s what I’m saying. I’m like, they’re obviously not wanting to stick as far as giving Peter name. And what are the symptoms? We don’t know yet.

J: STI’s are literally obsessed with being like, “Hey, so the symptoms” and actually-

H: Are the same.

J: No, but it’s also true of any virus in general, apparently it’s like, the medical community’s obsessed with being like, “There can be literally no symptoms or your whole kidney can fall out of your asshole dead.” And it’s one or the other. I can’t handle that. Do you know what I mean?

H: Yes.

J: I don’t.

H: I know exactly what you mean. And honestly I keep waiting for it to be like this. I feel like with mental illness, they were always like, “Mental illness, horrible, sucks for you.” And then we started figuring out that some are worse than others. I feel like my depression sucks, but my ADD actually kind of rocks. And it’s like, I’m hoping that someday one of these STDs is actually your sex is going to feel better. It’s like a safe disease.

J: We actually found out that chlamydia makes you so sensitive.

H: You’re p*ssy wetty, b*tch. Yeah. No, I feel like we could use an STD that is-

J: I’m finding, I’m kind of obsessed with monkeypox or being like, “Hey, when I show up I give you pox. I am a clear communicator. You will have a rash. It will scar.” I’m like, “I love you. I really love what you’re bringing to the table.”

H: Yes, yes. I feel the same with things that you can just get away with right away. If I get an STD, it’s like, please give me chlamydia or something so I can just wipe it away.

J: Absolutely.

H: I’ve had every weird skin thing. Well, that sounded extreme. But I had scabies before anyone was having it, I feel like.

J: Wait, I had a doctor in college who was literally obsessed with taking things I had that were totally normal medical conditions and diagnosing them as STIs. So this happened to me multiple times. He put me on… I get strep throat literally like it’s my job. I’m currently on amoxicillin right now as I speak to you right now. I’m not joking. I get strep literally all the time.

H: Everyone else in the podcast room was like, “What’d you say?”

J: I’m not contagious. We’re on day three. We’re fine. But it’s like, I truly get strep all the time. And it’s like, at this point, I do think let’s sidebar American Medical Association, after you’ve had strep three times, you should be allowed to diagnose yourself and give yourself antibiotics. I literally am tired of auditioning for antibiotics for doctors. It’s literally the most annoying thing in the world. I go in, I play the part.

H: I agree.

J: I do my lines, thatt’s so f*cking annoying. So I go to the doctor and I’m like, “Hey, I have strep.” And he looks, and he’s like, “So you thought that strep, but actually 100 percent, I would literally bet my life and my child’s life on it that you have severe herpes of the throat.” Puts me on full blown Valtrex. I’m sobbing. I’m like, I have throat herpes. I’m on Valtrex for a full week. And then I get a phone call that’s like, “Stop taking those immediately. The test came back, it’s absolutely strep throat.” And it wasn’t getting better. Then I had to go get antibiotics.

H: How many people did he tell about your herpes?

J: Oh, I was sobbing to my literal mother.

H: Yeah, Jake has a group text. He’s like, “You know what? You heard it here first, you got throat herpes too.”

J: Called my mom crying about the fact that I got throat herpes from sucking d*ck. Conversation I had with my mother for no reason. And then not two weeks later, I go for a rash. It was eczema. It was the start of me having eczema. I did a full body scabies treatment. And then he was like, “Actually I do think it’s eczema,” when it didn’t go away.

H: Here’s the thing that really sucks about my scabies, though. I got my scabies from… I didn’t get touched or sex at all. I literally didn’t get a kiss. I got it from a mattress. I literally slept at a guy’s house, he didn’t touch me and then I got a f*cking rash. Can you imagine?

J: That sucks so bad.

H: Honestly, scabies is not that bad. It just looks like these little bumps and then when you find out what it is, that’s when it’s the worst. Because first you’re like, “Hmm, little itch, worse than a mosquito.” And then you’re like bugs are laying eggs under my skin. And then you start to really go into full panic.

J: No.

H: I got rid of it really fast.

J: I would lose my mind.

H: It doesn’t feel good. Wait, so real quick how did your mom handle it? Your herpes?

J: My mom is actually very chill.

H: She was good.

J: She was good about it. I don’t think she would’ve… Yeah, no, my mom and I are pretty open and talk about most things.

H: Good me too.

J: Yeah. So she was chill about it. It’s not like I went into detail. I wasn’t like, “I should have known, he was uncircumcised.”

H: He was uncircumcised.

J: I didn’t say anything graphic. But whatever, you know what I mean?

H: Yes.

J: Well, this is also a thing I say. Once you’ve come out to your parents, I think it’s easier to talk about anything because the thing about coming out, oh my God, you literally just pulled out the fanciest European coffee just out of nowhere.

H: I’m at my mom’s house. She literally does weird stuff like this.

J: Nespresso.

H: And they won’t have a coffee thing. She doesn’t like coffee, but she likes the smell. So when I’m in town, she’ll be like, “Espresso time.” She gets really excited about it. Yeah. She’s really a hoot. She’ll probably pop in and a little bit.

J: I can’t wait. No, but I just think that coming out sucks because you are just admitting to your parents that you have at that point in time, become horny and thought about the kind of sex you want to be having. Do you know what I mean?

H: Yes.

J: Telling your parents, “I’m gay.” You’re basically being like “I do think I want to go down on the dude.” Do you know what I mean? And it’s like, that sucks.

H: ​​Yeah. And mine is the opposite. Mine was like, “Me and Jane talked about improv for an hour and I got to my car and I was wet.” So tell me what that’s about. No, I love it. Being wet is the funniest thing where it’s, I feel like y’all get stuff where it’s out in public, where you get a boner, so you have to address it quicker. Whereas for me, I’ll literally hang out with someone who I think is a total freak for five hours and go home and go to the bathroom and I’m like, I soaked. What is going on? I feel like my brain and body are not on the same wavelength all the time. I never have crushes on people who I actually… That their brains are right for me. Obviously, that’s why I’m alone I think. Anyway, I love people, but it’s like, yeah, I’m attracted to crazy sh*t.

J: Okay.

H: My coming out was later too. So I think my parents knew I’d been horny for a while.

J: How old were you when you came out?

H: Well, I was totally hooking up with girls. Oh my God, I’m trying to make sure you don’t think I’m a virgin. I’m like, “I started f*cking at 10.” It’s like what? No, but I was kissing women and stuff like that in college and doing stuff with women, but it was always in party settings. So in my head, I was just like, “We’re all doing that.” And also I would always be high and stuff. So I was always… I remember the first time I was with titties, they were really big. Okay. But, they were huge. Okay. And I just remembered being like, it felt like I was in a science experiment cause I was also high. And I remembered after being, I don’t think I’m gay, but it’s like now if I had those titties I’d know what to do. So I wasn’t ready for them. I had to start with a smaller cup. Anyways, so I finally came out at 24 to my mom, dad, and sister. Well, but this is the best. This is why my mom is so f*cking funny too. This is real. So basically I came out… My mom and dad come into town, me and my sibling are living in Chicago at the time. And we all go out to pizza and I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to tell them, because I’m fully in love with my ex-girlfriend.” And it kind of sprung on me all of a sudden I was in love with her. And every time we were hanging out, like I said, I was. She was just like, “Oh my God, I just want to be touching instead of talking.” And so then I was like, I have to tell them. And I tell them and they handle it so well. My mom kind of attacks me. She’s like, “Knew it.” I’m like what?

J: Oh my God.

H: But then my sister one year ago… This is because I’m 28 now, so this is years ago. This is like, I’m 23 when I had to come out, I think. Yeah, 23 not 24. So this is like five years ago. My sister a year ago goes, “I told mom before.”

J: Shut the f*ck up.

H: So my mom, instead of just answering it nicely… Because my sister wanted to make sure that my mom handled it well. Instead of answering it nicely, my mom goes, “Knew it, mother’s intuition.” Obsessed. She’s an icon. But my dad was really excited. My dad started texting me about different stuff. He’s like, “Did you see that picture of Rihanna?” I was like, “All right.”

J: Oh my God.

H: My dad is more… He was excited that we could both, I think, think women are hot. And I was like, “I’m here for it, but don’t push it.”

J: Yeah. That flashed me back to a memory that I have worked really hard to repress. One time when I was 12 at 11 o’clock at night when I was staying at my grandfather’s house, my grandfather opened my door, my bedroom door and was like, “Hey, Jake.” And the energy was immediately different than any interaction I’ve ever had with my grandfather. And I was like, “Hi.” And he was like, “Hi.” And I was like, “What’s up?” And he was like, “This is for you.” And he handed me the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition. And imagine just two little 12-year-old f*g wrists being like, “Thank you.” And I held it and was so confused at the time that I didn’t even at first realize he thinks I want to jerk to this. I just was like, why is he doing this? And then he was like, “You enjoy that?” And then closed the door. And I truly was like… And then I just walked across the room and I slid it under a piece of furniture in the corner of the room, like a cabinet, like a wardrobe. I just slid it under the floor and was like, someone will find that when we move out of this house. Just like I can’t. I never want to acknowledge it.

H: But honestly, he knew.

J: No, but he thought I was straight.

H: He was giving you the opposite. He was like, do you think he knew? And he was trying to get you almost excited, the opposite way.

J: I have-

H: Did your family know you were gay? I feel like it may have been obvious.

J: Oh, I think that people were calling me gay when I was legitimately 2 years old. I think I was like the-

H: That’s what I was saying. I almost feel like he was trying to… He’s like this will switch you. And you’re like, you f*cking wish.

J: No, but I don’t think my grandfather would’ve been the one to block it.

H: You’re right. You’re right.

J: But I think everyone else did. Or maybe he literally… What if he actually was incredibly woke about it and he was sitting downstairs for hours looking at this being like, “Do I give it to him? Even though I think he’s gay.” And then he’s like, “No, I’m not going to assume this child’s sexuality and I’m going to assume this child’s sexuality.” What if that was the conversation my grandfather went through?

H: No, my grandma and grandpa and my extended family is just real Catholic and therefore anti-gay whether they say it out loud or not. They’re definitely not supportive of it, I’ll say that. But literally they don’t know, my grandma likes to go to garage sales all the time, that’s a big passion of hers.

J: Oh garage sales, is that what you said?

H: Garage sales. Yeah. Like thrifting.

J: Totally.

H: Yeah. And so the other day my cousin sends me a photo. We’re not close. And it’s like a cup that my grandpa has that’s like, love is love, love is love, love is love.

J: Stop.

H: All in a rainbow. And they’re like, “Look what he’s drinking out of it.” It’s like, they have no idea. They just like love is love stuff and rainbow stuff from the garage sale, but don’t know they’re doing gay pride.

J: That’s perfect.

H: I know. It’s really, really amazing. My grandma’s absolutely drinking out of rainbow rhinestone glasses and she’s like, “They should go to hell.” It’s really wild. Wait, so when did you come out to your mom?

J: When I was 16 on the way to my driver’s test. Driving to my driver’s test I told my mom I was gay.

H: Oh my God. Did you tell your driver exam person too?

J: No, but I was so stressed in my driver’s exam.

H: That’s what I’m saying. I would have been shaken up.

J: I was also so stressed. The only really memorable moment I have from my driver’s exam, is that I had an absolutely deranged driver’s ed teacher who was actually… I could actually write a series about my experience because I took summer’s driver’s ed, where you go for five weeks over the summer, do five days a week. Our driver’s ed teacher was notoriously just one of the most bizarre men I’ve ever encountered in my life. He would tell drinking stories from college all the time, and always say what the drink was that they were drinking during the event he was talking about, and then the recipe for it. I don’t know why.

H: No, and you’re all driving.

J: Well, yeah. I mean so much drivers ed was about not drunk driving. Also, famously in my driver’s ed class, every year the kids were shown a slideshow that was just photos of people who had been horrifically maimed in accidents and killed. We literally saw bodies.

H: What the f*ck? I took one quiz.

J: I will never forget this, one day in class he goes, “One of the most important things you need to know as a driver, is you never swerve for an animal because you don’t know what is on the side of the road or on the opposite side of the road and we always have to value a human life over an animal life.” And then there’s a very pregnant pause.

H: He’s like speed up.

J: No, and then he literally goes, “I’ve hit six cats and four dogs.” He was like, “I don’t regret a single one because I don’t know what would’ve happened if I had swerved.”

H: No.

J: Then fast forward to my driver’s test, and I’m so stressed. I’ve just come out to my mom. P.S. The first thing I have to do after I finish this driver’s test is come out to my dad because my parents are divorced. I’m literally the most stressed I’ve ever been in my entire life, and I’m driving down the street, and I am in a school zone. I was by the Rutland Intermediate School and a squirrel dive bombs the road, absolutely sprints across the road. I scream and swerve, absolutely in oncoming traffic, swerve around the squirrel. I’m like, “Oh my God!” Swerve around the squirrel, pull over. I immediately start shaking with fear because I just failed. I absolutely just failed. There’s no way I didn’t fail. There was an incredibly long pause where I’m like, Mr. Pluto’s going to be so disappointed I swerved for the animal. I could have killed a human life.

H: Oh my God.

J: There’s a long pause and then the guy administering the test goes, “I hate that squirrel.”

H: Oh my God! Wait, so you passed?

J: I absolutely passed.

H: That’s insane that he wasn’t mad at you for not killing it. He’s been killing animals left and right with a passion.

J: No, because it was a different man. The guy who taught driver’s ed, is not the guy who took different-

H: Different man.

J: Different man.

H: Okay, because that guy might be a psycho, who was in charge.

J: Yeah, he might-

H: I would swerve for a cat or dog every single time.

J: Every single time. Also, dogs are big. You could get hurt. I don’t know.

H: He’s like, “You see a bear, speed up.” You’re like, “What? Bears are huge.” I’ve only hit one animal in my car, and it was a turtle, and I sobbed.

J: I hit a groundhog once and it was really hard for me.

H: A groundhog. Where were you?

J: Vermont. I’m from Vermont.

H: There are groundhogs running around?

J: Are there not groundhogs in the Midwest?

H: I didn’t grow up with those. No, they weren’t around. No, I didn’t see groundhogs growing up. If I’m being honest, when you say it, I think of the movie and that’s it. What do they look like? Just a big beaver or something?

J: Take a beaver and give it a normal tail.

H: Yes.

J: That’s honestly a groundhog. And then, I guess…

H: That’s so sad. That probably was really sad to kill.

J: I just felt it.

H: Yes. The turtle made a noise that you didn’t have to think. Turtle. It was like, “That’s a shell.” It was so sad. I had been in a huge fight with my dad, and I was driving three hours away from Jacksonville to Tallahassee, Florida in the middle of the night, and I was sobbing because we had been in this fight about cops or something. I was in college and learning how to discuss.

J: Absolutely.

H: I remember hitting the turtle. I called my mom and I was like, “If dad would’ve closed his f*cking mouth, this turtle would be alive.” No, I’m glad you passed and I’m really glad the other guy was actually sane about that. Your dad didn’t take it as well?

J: No, he took it relatively fine. It took him a little bit longer than my mom to process it, but it was mostly fine.

H: Okay.

J: It was mostly fine.

H: You’re like it’s not the topic for today. Let’s talk about going out.

J: We do have to talk about going out at some point. But no, this story about my dad is just, I think I’ve just told the story on the podcast before, but you deserve to hear it, which is that-

H: I’m sorry. No, no.

J: No, no because you do need to hear it. Part of the reason that this day was the day I was telling my dad, was because the next morning I was supposed to leave at 5 o’clock in the morning with my stepmom to go see a show in New York City. I told my mom … It was right after my 16th birthday. They had gotten me tickets to a Broadway show for my birthday.

H: The ever setting up.

J: I tell my mom, I get my driver’s test, I do my driver’s test, I get my driver’s license, I go to my dad’s house, and then the minute I arrive there, they’re like, “Hey, we actually decided to change the plan up. Your dad’s taking you to New York tomorrow morning.” I was like, “Now I have to spend a full day with him in a car in New York City, and we have to see a Broadway show,” and the Broadway show was what? “Equus”? The show where Daniel Radcliffe f*cks a horse on stage.

H: No. Yes, of course. “Equus,” you’re going to have to tell him before.

J: I told him and then we went and watched Harry Potter f*ck a horse.

H: He’s looking at you like, “Is this what you want to do now?” You’re like, “Not at all.”

J: Not at all. But in line, you know how when you go to a Broadway show you line up outside before you go in?

H: Yes.

J: I get a phone call and I’m like, “Who’s calling me because I’m 16. I don’t have any reason to be called.” I look at my cell phone and it’s the only boy I’ve ever hooked up with at that point in time. I’m like, “Okay.” I answer the phone and he’s like, “Are you in line for ‘Equus’ right now?”

H: No, he’s not in line for “Equus.”

J: I was like, “Yeah.” Then he came up and said hi with my dad there. I was like “I hope that there’s a fire. I want to die.” It was so brutal, but then my dad was fine. It was ultimately fine.

H: Are you in touch with that guy?

J: No.

H: Was he a bad person?

J: He was fine.

H: Okay. Hooking up in high school. Really proud of you—

J: Wait, okay. That’s where I want to start, in terms of transitioning to going out because I’m curious-

H: Well, I won’t transition as well. No, not like that.

J: Wait because, okay, high school… You’re from the Midwest.

H: Mostly. I grew up in… This is how it went. Born in Texas, my family moved to Florida when I was 3 to 6, then we moved to Nebraska and I was there until sophomore year of high school, and then they moved me back to Florida. I feel like I was from Nebraska and Florida.

J: Okay.

H: I feel like the Midwest roots were really sunk in by then. The times when I would’ve been surfing in 8th grade, I was like, goobing it out. You know what I mean?

J: Yeah.

H: I definitely feel like the goober Midwest is what stuck through. In Florida, they were always like, “Where are you from?” Do you know what I mean?

J: Oh, yeah because they were like this isn’t from here.

H: This is not from here, not that type of energy. I had to learn how to wear a swimsuit junior year of high school. It was really hard comfortably.

J: Were you partying? I guess this is where I’m curious.

H: Yeah, I partied. I go hard. I was selling. No, I did party, though. Well, because in Nebraska there was not much to do at all.

J: Yeah.

H: I was partying, but in the safest of ways. Well, that’s a stretch. I was partying pretty safe, because it was with other goobers. It was not-

J: When you say goobers, my mind goes to the technical department of a theater department. Is that what we’re talking about?

H: Show choir.

J: Show choir.

H: Yes. In middle school.

J: The idea of you doing show choir, Holmes is really crazy to me.

H: I was big in show choir and I always sucked at the dancing parts. The dancing parts, we were like, “She’ll get it some day.” I was good at the singing and acting, but not amazing. I was fine. I mean, my focus was really bad for the choreography parts. I would get in trouble a lot during choreo, but basically in the Midwest, show choir was huge. We would do competitions where we would go to South Dakota and things like that.

J: That’s insane.

H: Basically, I drank for my first time in 7th grade and I remember it was UV Blue-

J: Classic. Mine was Hypnotic, same color.

H: Yes. And some random high school dude or I don’t even know the guy who got it for us that gave it to us. Just me and one girlfriend drank it. We had a little bit, we were f*cked up. We put it under her sink and then we danced all night. It was very PG. Then in high school, freshman year, I started smoking weed and drinking more often. But once again, it would just be in these small groups. I remember other people were experimenting with acid, and shrooms, and stuff, but I was very aware that I was pretty nuts and it wasn’t treated. I was like, I can’t do these fun drugs. They were always like, “You have to have a good mindset to do that one.” And I’m like, “I’ve never had that.” Now, recently, I’ve actually been able to do shrooms for my first time because-

J: Did you love?

H: I love, I couldn’t believe it.

J: I love. They’re the best.

H: I am grateful that I waited really long because I’m a huge stoner and I think that I was… I just really was whenever people said the whole mindset thing, I was like, I just genuinely hadn’t been there yet where it was I normally am so anxious. Where now, I feel like I know myself and my friends in life a good amount, so it works out. I’d say I was an occasional drinker and smoker all through high school. And then in college, I started smoking by myself. I’m like, “In college things got pretty scary.” No, it’s like a trauma episode. I just feel like I started smoking alone and that I did start more of a lifetime relationship with-

J: With marijuana. Yeah.

H: Yeah. Drinking makes me sad the next morning. I get f*cked up, but I do get sad.

J: Yeah, the emotional hangover is challenging. I’m envious of people like you that can smoke weed and go out and be social because I actually do lose my full-ass mind.

H: Yes. Well, I think it has to do with, I think everyone’s brains are really different, so everyone has to find their own journey with sh*t. For me, some of my friends will be like, “Ooh, you really smoke every day?” I don’t smoke in the morning. I didn’t smoke before this. I just have to smoke to go to bed and stuff. A lot of my friends are… My mom is like, “Really? You really want to do it all the time?” It’s like, “You’re welcome.” Literally, me without weed is… Weed helps me shut up at all. I’m very intense. My brain is running a million miles an hour. I always have something to say. I’m always thinking about something. Literally, sometimes I’ll be really high and look around at my friends and I go, “This is their break time.”

J: Yeah.

H: I just cry in my head. It’s all going to me. I just think that it helps me, especially after I’m high, when I get less high, I’m just like a chiller.

J: Yeah, I don’t fully understand. I actually have not gotten a grasp on how my brain reacts. I think part of why I like hallucinogens is because they’re the only drug I’ve ever done where I feel like it’s like, “Oh, that’s exactly what I was told it was supposed to be and that’s how it went.”

H: Yes.

J: Weed for me, I’m always like, “I’m going to have so much fun, and it’s going to be so fun, and we’re just going to chill out.” Then I’ll look at my closest friend and be like, “I don’t think I’ve ever f*cking known them.” I’ll have the craziest. I took Ritalin once in college because I was, like, I have so much homework to do. I took Ritalin because I had a lot of homework to do and I was, like, I’ll do homework in the library. I took Ritalin and got the munchies, went and bought food. That’s not normal.

H: That’s the thing. It seems like everyone’s brain is so different and that’s what’s so fucked when everyone is like, “This one thing for each one.” It’s like, no, all of us are going to react extremely differently.

J: Extremely differently.

H: For me, when I used to smoke weed not often, I really could freak out. When I do a little every day, it’s like I can’t get… I remember one time in college I was so high, and sitting in the corner or something really, really weird, and these really big stoner dudes were like, “We wish we could get that high still.” I remember being like, “No, you don’t.”

J: No, you don’t.

H: And now when I see those people, I’m like, “Oh, I really can’t get that high.” I don’t wish I could. It was horrible.

J: Yeah. I don’t like being super high. I do smoke a lot more weed now than I did when I was younger, which I’m also glad for. I think if I had smoked a lot of weed when I was younger, I would’ve not handled it well, but I do smoke a lot of weed at the end of the day now and sometimes I’m like-

H: You do?

J: What?

H: You do?

J: Yeah!

H: You just did a 10 monologue on how it makes you feel horrible and you’re like-

J: Alone. No social interactions. If I was having a friend over, if I was going to a party, absolutely no weed. None.

H: You do it at home alone or with your partner?

J: Yeah. If I’m chilling and it’s a couple hours before bed, I’ll smoke a little bit or take an edible, but that’s-

H: I love it alone.

J: Yeah, I can only do it alone, or the beach is my other thing. On 4/20 I wasn’t smoking because it was 4/20, I just remembered that it was on 4/20. Being like, “I smoked weed on 4/20” is so lame. Anyway, moving on.

H: You’re like-

J: Yeah. Anyway, it just happened that this happened to me on 4/20. I smoked weed and was thinking about it. I was like, “Wow, I used to really not be able to smoke weed and now I can and function.” And then, I dropped my AirPod in the toilet and genuinely thought… I was like, “I really don’t want to put my hand in the toilet. That’s gross.”

H: Yes.

J: I genuinely thought, “Ooh, I’ll flush the toilet and it’ll splash out and I’ll catch it in midair.” That sh*t shot down the drain instantaneously. I flushed it down the toilet instantaneously. I was like, okay, so it’s gone. For sure, it’s gone. The dumbest sh*t.

H: I cannot. That is so f*cking funny. Yeah, no, I mean I definitely do. I am spacey and I do think that it definitely affects dumb things I do on a day to day. I also think that it’s that or me being insane in a different way. You know what I mean? It’s like, “Pick your poison.”

J: Yeah, but… We went out a couple times when I was in LA, and it was so fun, and I really enjoyed going out with you.

H: I love.

J: I was like-

H: I enjoyed it as well.

J: Okay, good. Imagine if you were like, “Wait, we did?” I’d be like …

H: That was pretty… Oh, well no, let’s not talk about it on the podcast.

J: No.

H: Well, I also love Ruby. I love that you love Ruby.

J: Obsessed with Ruby.

H: Yes.

J: Obsessed with Ruby. She was here last week or the week before we hung out and it was so nice to see her.

H: She’s such a tease, for real. I feel like she really will end up with a guy, but who knows? It’s like genuinely when she’s drunk, she wants to kiss all of her friends, and she’s so hot and funny that when she kisses me, I’m like, “I will fall in love. Don’t dare me.” What’s going on? Don’t put this in the podcast. Just kidding, she can know.

J: I had Covid for the third time recently, it’s obsessed with me. The day I tested negative was the day of Ruby’s party, my first day testing negative. I was still like, “Do I feel safe going out? I’m testing negative.” And I was like, “F*ck it I really want to see Ruby. I’m going to go out.” I walk in the bar, immediately a full open-mouth kiss. I was like, all right, well the exposure has happened.

H: 1,000 percent.. Literally, in times of Covid, all of her story is just kissing people and I go, “You know what? I’m not doing that until I feel good.”

J: I know. She definitely has Mycoplasma genitalium.

H: She does. Sorry, Ruby. We love you.

J: Sorry, Ruby. We love you more than anything.

H: We love you more than anything, but yeah.

J: What I was saying about you going out, when we were out together, I wouldn’t be like, “Whoa, Holmes is so stoned.” You have your wits about you. You’re functional. Whereas I would be, people would say something if I had smoked weed. They would be like, um…

H: Thank you so much. I don’t know. I think that it’s because I do it more often. I will say that I do also to drink less if I’m out because… There’s a new thing that I’m obsessed with this and it’s not an ad, but these weed sodas I am obsessed with bringing out instead, for a park or something. It’s like I do having a drink and there’s these weed sodas that are so good. I do feel that it hits you slower because you’re drinking it versus eating something.

J: Right, but if you drink three, are you so high or are they?

H: They’re different amounts of one. I have some that are 5 milligrams at home and then some that are 20. I can do a 20, but it’s like some people can’t you know? They do. I think the high is just different because it’s like you’re digesting it differently. But anyway, when I drink-

J: I do want to try those.

H: They’re so good. I’m medicated for anxiety and I break down and I go… No, I am and I think that because of that, I can still drink, but I do have to be more careful with drinks. I have a rule for myself. Growing up, shots have always been a big thing in the culture of partying. Even when I’m wasted now, I will say no to a shot because literally if I take a shot, I black out. And when I black out, even if my behavior is okay, which sometimes it’s not, even when it is okay I wake up feeling like… I just hate not remembering. With weed, this just never happens. I think that’s why because it’s like I like going out with people a lot and I just hate when I can’t remember. Especially, I’ll kiss a crush or something and they’ll be like, “Y’all were making out.” I’m like, “Well I don’t have that saved in my memory at all.”

J: Oh my god! The kissing a crush and not remembering it is a devastating combination.

H: It hurts so bad. You’re like, well hopefully I was a good kisser because I wouldn’t know, would I? You don’t know if she is either. Yeah, so I think that’s why I’m really, really careful. I am proud of myself for that because I really used to just take the shots because the pressure gets so intense.

J: Yeah. The pressure, I think that people need to stop putting pressure on people to do shots. I think it’s not an acceptable thing, at this point in time.

H: You’d take a shot though.

J: I would take this shot, but if someone was like, “Come on, do it!” Then I would be like, “No.” Do you know what I mean?

H: Yeah. I know. It’s hard because I love a rowdy b*tch. A lot of my friends are like that. I just love people who are obnoxious, but they’ve learned now. I tell them sober, I will say no, and I’ve gotten better. Basically what happens is once a year someone gets me to take one. Okay. I forget, it’s been long enough. I take one, I end up blacking out. I throw up or whatever. That happened recently and my family was actually in town.

J: Bad combo.

H: They had gone home earlier than me and I went to the Airbnb where I got them to stay, and we go. Apparently, I don’t remember this. My sibling tells me I get to the house, I immediately throw up outside the Uber, but I’m in a fine mood about it, walk in the house. My mom is apparently hiding to scare me because she knows I hate being scared. I hate being scared so much. I’m very jumpy. She jumps out and apparently my blackout, I go, “Funny.” Not scared at all. Then I proceed… I wake up the next morning and my mom tells me this, that I immediately take off all my clothes. My dad’s in the other room. We’ve never seen each other. That’s like the only thing I have, is that we’ve never seen each other. We’ve never seen each other. That’s the only thing I have is that we’ve never seen each other.

J: All I have in this life is that my dad’s never seen my boobs.

H: He and I have never… Genitals. I’ve never seen him. That’s our secret, right?

J: I mean, same. To be honest, same.

H: Right. So I’m butt-ass naked in the living room, and my mom says I start… This is my blackout. This is why I don’t do it. I start swinging my titties in her face, and I said, “Get a mouthful.” Okay? And she tells me this, okay, the next morning. No. She tells me this next morning, and I go, “Oh my God. I’m so sorry.” And then my mom goes, “You say sorry too much.” Anyway, she’s hilarious. But that story was exactly why I’m, like, that is horrifying, thank God I was around y’all.

J: No. You can’t do shots.

H: I can’t do shots. I can’t be swinging my titties telling people to get a mouthful in public. Thank God I was in a safe space. Other people would’ve got a mouthful. My mom chose not to.

J: That’s so f*cked up.

H: She had to write to choose. Yeah. It’s really, really… Anyways, so that’s why I don’t do that, but I do love to party.

J: Saying get a mouthful is really scary.

H: It’s really, really scary, especially when you don’t remember it. That’s where my brain goes when it’s blackout, trying to breastfeed my mom. That’s really dark. I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to be in that place. I didn’t like hearing it. I didn’t like that the whole family could keep joking about it. And I had to be like, I guess I did that. You know?

J: Have you ever done anything on weed that you don’t remember? Have you ever gotten so high, you’re like, “Wait, I did what?”

H: On weed, I won’t maybe remember the exact phrasing, but it’s like I… The most embarrassing thing I do on weed is I used to pee my pants because I would laugh, but I don’t anymore. Basically, I have a weird… My mom pees her pants laughing. I pee my pants laughing.

J: I think that’s a thing.

H: Yes, it’s a thing. But because I was trained from a young age that it was going to be a part of my life because my mom was peeing so frequently, I started doing kegels and practicing stuff for a long time. But in high school, when I started smoking, I would lose control, and I would be at the party… Well, I can’t, it’s a podcast. But I have this walk where I cross my legs, and I waddle walk to the bathroom keeping the pressure tight. And so there’s a lot of videos of everyone hanging out, and I’m in the corner trying to sneak waddle to the bathroom and sh*t like that. There were a lot of memories of growing up where I peed my pants because I was laughing so hard, but then I’d make up a story. In fifth grade, I remember peeing fully and then being like, “I fell in a puddle outside. Sh*t’s insane today.” And they were like, “Obviously, it smells like piss.” They’re like, “We’ll get you some pants.” I’m like, “It was a puddle.”

J: It was a puddle of piss that I fell in, not my piss, someone else’s.

H: Yeah. I’m like, People are peeing outside, and I fell. But anyway, I think that that’s the most embarrassing. I’ve never hurt someone’s feelings. I would say that my worst sides come out to lovers, not friends.

J: Oh, interesting.

H: Yes, and so I’d say with alcohol, my ex-lovers… Lovers. What am I from? My ex-partners, whatever, they’ve seen the worst sides of me, but also have fun with me drinking. So that’s why I’ve made so many rules because it’s like… Yeah.

J: Yeah. So I think my version of the no shots rule is I have a no bong rule. No. I don’t do any sort of water pipe. I’m not really touching a bubbler or a grav bong or a normal bong. I don’t…

H: Dude, grav bongs are really scary.

J: Yeah. I one time did a grav bong and truly was like, Wow, I burned my lung forever. It’s over. I truly thought a lung transplant was going to happen, but I get so… I just don’t need that volume of marijuana to go into my bloodstream at that high volume. I remember one time, a big thing at my college was ordering wings. That was the only late-night food was wings delivery. And I was so high and really wanted these wings, and I was with my boyfriend at the time, and we ordered them, and then I just laid on his cold tile floor, like every 20 seconds being like, “Where are the wings,” like losing my mind. And then, similar to you making out with your crush, and this is weed. I don’t think I was drunk. I think this was just weed. Similar to kissing or crush, I think I got so excited when the wings showed up that I blacked out. I don’t remember eating the wings from the weed. But then apparently I ate one and was like, “These suck,” and threw it at the wall and then walked home.

H: No. No. No. No. So you’re a problematic high person. For me, no. I’m not going to have an attitude on weed. I’m only going to be silly or completely boring. You know what I mean? But mostly I’ll be silly. So you’re not problematic when you drink?

J: I don’t think so. Not really. I’ve never gotten…

H: You’ve never been in a big, drunk fight. Are you meaner to friends or partners when you’re inebriated?

J: I’m not really mean to either, I don’t think. I really hope my friends don’t…

H: Oh my God. I’m so…

J: I hope I just don’t get a ton of text messages after that that’s like, “No. You’re mean.” Every once in a while… My boyfriend and I have been together a long time, and I think we’ve gotten in a quote unquote drunken fight a couple times, but one of them was on Fire Island, and that was after six days of partying, and I think it was more about the fact that our brains were down to literally… I mean literally walking around the rest of our body, being like “Serotonin. Does anyone have any?” Literally so depleted.

H: Yes.

J: I’m not a fighter. I’ve never been yelling at someone in a bar fighting. That’s not really my…

H: No. You’re making mine sound crazy.

J: No. I’m not saying you’re that, either. No, I’m trying. I guess sometimes I’ll get… I will say this. I will say on pride this weekend because it was pride in New York, and I was prideful.

H: God bless.

J: I did get really mad at… I got really mad. It was me, my best friend David, our friend, Gabby, and Nate, my boyfriend were out at this gay bar, and they got… Okay, this is going to be cathartic for me to tell the story because I was right, and they were wrong. The bar…

H: Oh my gosh. We find out that he’s been in fights all the time, but he’s like, “It’s not wrong when you’re right.”

J: And I’m like, “Wait. We have to wrap up the interview, I have court.” No, so we’re sitting in this… We’re at this bar that has this huge outdoor space, and we’re sitting, and they have a DJ set up, and there’s a party going, and it’s really fun. And then all of a sudden, there’s this stack of, I’m going to say, 12 pizza boxes shows up, that they just put next to the DJ booth and everyone around us has pizza. Everyone’s eating pizza. So then it’s like, we are sitting inside this vestibule. So it’s like me and David are sitting on the inside, and Nate and Gabby are on the outside, and they go, “Should we go explore if that pizza’s up for grabs?” I was like, “Yeah. I obviously want a slice of pizza.” And they’re like, “Okay. Cool.” They then get up, and then I go watch them. They say, “We’re going to go check out the pizza situation and get you guys slices of pizza.” They then go look at the pizza. They have some sort of conversation, and then they don’t get any pizza and go inside to the bar and are inside the bar for the next 15 minutes. And David and I are sitting there and I’m like, “Where is the f*cking pizza?” I’m like, on principle, and this is where I’m being a little bit of a bitch is like, I on principle am not getting up to get a slice of pizza. I’m like, “No. I was told I would be given one. So I’m going to stay here,” and I’m sitting there, and then David finally gets up and goes to the bathroom, so I’m alone holding the table. And then they come back and I’m like, “What the f*ck?” And they’re like, “What?” And I’m like, “Where’s the pizza?” And they were like, “We didn’t say we’re getting you pizza.” And I was like, “That’s gaslighting. Yes you did.”

H: Yes you did.

J: And then they were like, “Well, we went and checked it out, and we weren’t sure if it was up for grabs because there was a name written on the side of the box.” Honey, baby, sweetie. How do you think delivery pizza has worked since the beginning of literal time? Have you ever been delivered a box of pizza that hasn’t had someone’s name written on the side of it?

H: Yeah. On the side of it it’s like “Nig old party.”

J: Literally. Communal. No. Also, we’re in a sea of people eating this f*cking pizza. I’m like, “Do you think everyone’s friends with Greg, but us? Who’s Greg? Like, f*ck off!” I got so mad, and I was doing it in a way where I thought I was being funny, but I was also mad. But then I looked over, and my friend Gabby kind of had eyes like…

H: Like you’re being… You are mad.

J: Like this isn’t funny for me. You’re being mean. And I kind of was like, “Okay.”

H: Okay. So we just answered the question. For you, it’s friends.

J: I guess, but I was also on acid, so that maybe doesn’t help. Does that count?

H: I think that, I’ve never done acid, I will someday maybe. Actually, I don’t know. I think I’m going to stick with my relationship with mushrooms, right now.

J: I stuck with shrooms exclusively for probably the first, honestly, nine years, and then I was like, “Okay. I’ll try acid now.”

H: Well, here’s what happened. Okay. Well, first off, I just want to say that wasn’t that mean, but I do think mine are like that where it’s only a couple times. I only had one relationship where we fought a lot, and it’s because there was no trust on either end, I feel like. But otherwise, it’s normally like there’s three big ones, and it normally does have to do with me drinking or something, where that’s not the fight, but it would never escalate to that place, you know what I mean? But I feel like my last one was really good. We got in only three fights the whole relationship.

J: You’re like, “It was a week-long relationship.” No. How long was the relationship?

H: Yeah. I’m like, “He’s dead, but he had a really nice time.” No, it was like a year. It was like a year.

J: Oh yeah. That’s a great ratio.

H: Yeah, and it felt good, and honestly, sometimes I’m like the thing is this I’m already a really blunt and open person, so I think that…

J: You are. I really respect it about you.

H: Thank you, you are too.

J: You don’t know me. Don’t f*cking say that.

H: That’s why when I drink, it can be extra because I feel like I’m already at a lot of people’s level of when they have two drinks open. Then I think, all of a sudden, I’ll like, you know what I mean? I got really drunk once in Chicago and there was this one guy, and I was like… Who I wasn’t even dating. He was just a guy who would always date younger people on the scene, and I went up to him, and I was like, “Everyone talks about how you hit on younger girls and everyone’s disgusted by it.” And then someone told me the next day, and I was like, “Woo.” But okay. The reason I won’t do acid is basically because one of my friends in college did it, and it can trigger… Which I think people can, but this is my anxiety with it because, once again, I am mentally ill.

J: 100 percent. Did he get schizophrenia from it?

H: I’m scared because I watched it trigger hers, and she’s still not the same, and it was really, really scary to watch.

J: Yeah. That’s part of why because I also, fun fact, truly, my mom works in that field of people who have mental health issues correlated to substance abuse, and it’s like, so that was always very present for me, and I think that’s why I didn’t touch any of it until I got a lot older because I also have a friend who’s a doctor who edited a book that was about mental illness triggered by cannabis and by LSD and stuff.

H: By cannabis?

J: By cannabis, and it can happen, but the older you get, the more likely… By the time you’re 30, I think you’re totally in the clear, not totally in the clear, but mostly in the clear.

H: See sometimes. Yeah. That’s the thing. I just don’t want to… I don’t need that riddle on my life. That seems like a f*cking nightmare. You think I’m okay?

J: I think you’re going to be fine. I don’t think you’re schizophrenic.

H: Me neither.

J: The reason you’re not schizophrenic. Wait, this is offensive to people who are schizophrenic.

H: Well, what is it?

J: I was going to say, I feel like if you heard a voice, you would immediately tell someone about it. You’d be like, “Wait, did you guys hear that?” And then I’d be like, “No.” And you’d be like, “Okay. Well, there’s someone here, and they’re literally telling me to go get a pizza.”

H: I would definitely. What happened is my friend was really open and cool, and she started telling us. She’d like, “Johnny’s not real. You guys are making him up. You’re lying.” And we’re like, “No. He’s right there, and he’s feeling awkward.”

J: That’s so sad.

H: The person who’s not real gets so… It’s awkward for them because they’re sort of like, “Do you know what I mean?”

J: Me and my cousin used to do that to my sister where we would get really annoyed with my younger sister, and she would be like… She’d be like, “What do you guys want to do today?” And we’d be like, “Was that the wind?” And she would get…

H: You were bullying people.

J: We were fully bullying my sister, and she was like, “Stop.” We thought it was so funny. I was…

H: Okay, wait. So, every episode, do you normally say when you started drinking and stuff like that? You already said right away.

J: I don’t know that I’ve… I guess it comes. So normally, it really depends on the guest. If it’s someone like this, who’s like my friend and who also does comedy, I feel like we have talked about going out in restaurants and bars and then half talk about literally whatever we want, à la, how we came out and breastfeeding your mother.

H: Yes.

J: But if it’s more a food person or a food personality, we’ll really get in the mud about food and restaurants and wine.

H: Okay. I love that. Are you a big foodie?

J: I worked in restaurants for 10 years, so…

H: I worked in restaurants, too, but I was always a vegetarian, but I’d work in butcher shops and stuff.

J: Oh, wow. That’s intense.

H: But I do like food running. I kept it low key.

J: Okay. Respect. I think that’s healthier. I should have gone. I went too hard into…

H: Serving?

J: Yeah. I had a career in restaurants that kind of, I think, stunted my comedic development for a second there, but then I got out.

H: I literally couldn’t disagree more that it stunted because genuinely, you were able to make bank while all the other jobs were making nothing because servers honestly did make so much more. And also, now you have all that stuff of like… You can really tell when comedians writing have only been around comedians.

J: That’s actually really true. That’s actually…

H: Not to be mean, but I just feel like you’re doing amazing and you have more layers in your mind. I’m so grateful for all my random jobs.

J: No. Me too.

H: Because now they are like, I don’t only know what comedians think.

J: Yeah, you’re right. You just caught me flexing an insecurity, and I appreciate you stopping me there.

H: Well, I just think you’re doing really great. I mean you’re my mom’s favorite comedian.

J: Okay.

H: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I’m holding her. She’s sucking on my tit. “When is Jake releasing another video?” No. No. No. She’s good. But… That… Sorry.

J: No. We’re already at the end. Like this went by so fast.

H: I know. I could tell because I had another question. I go, “We’re at the end.”

J: Wait. No. Ask your question, and then we’ll do the last thing, and then it’s done.

H: No, but that’s the thing is that… Well, I was just going to actually say that I loved going out with you when you were in town because we actually did karaoke.

J: That was really fun.

H: For me, I like to do a deep cut that’s sort of emotional, and I feel like a lot of people won’t, and so I try to do a fun song. And when you went up and did Fiona Apple, and the room totally shifted, I was really appreciative of that.

J: A woman came up to me after and said, “That was amazing.” And I really appreciated that.

H: It was.

J: And I do think it was just the energetic choice of it because I also…

H: “Paper Bag,” that quiet song. I think it was a huge one, and you can tell who’s cool in the room right away. Right away, I go, Okay. Who do I want to have a crush on?

J: Yeah, absolutely. I did Fiona Apple “Paper Bag,” and I then had to do… I did a standup show recently where they made us also… It was a charity show where they were raising money, so they also did this thing where audience members had to bid on money to get you to sing a song karaoke after your set. And I did once again. It was insane, but I did Fiona Apple “Paper Bag” again, and…

H: You were doing the same one. Okay.

J: I was doing the same one. Someone non-consensually posted it on Insta Stories, and so I got to hear it back, and I was like, “I knew I wasn’t a singer, but wow. I’m actually so bad. This is really brutal.”

H: No, it was not like that. I think you’re really good…

J: Thank you.

H: But it can be scary to hear it back. No.

J: Okay. So in the vein of liking going out together, the way we usually end the show is that we plan our next night out together.

H: I’m so excited. Okay. Amazing. Well, when is this episode released?

J: Probably in a couple months, to be honest, like probably August.

H: Okay. I love that. Well, because I was going to say that if you… Are you in New York?

J: I’m in New York. I’ll be in Scotland for all of August. Are you doing Fringe? No. You’ll be shooting.

H: No. I would love… I’ll be shooting, but I will. We have to have a new word for that, but I will be in North Carolina for August and September, but 2023, I want to spend a whole month in New York, at least doing standup, because I just like the community out there and stuff, but I am going to be in New York, literally, in a week for a few nights. If you are free any of them, we can go out then, but otherwise, it’s going to be 2023.

J: Okay. So let’s hope it’s in the next three nights or in those three nights. When are they?

H: July 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. So basically the 2nd or 3rd, you’d have to see me. But if you can’t, it’s okay.

J: So I’m absolutely on Fire Island when you’re here. That’s devastating.

H: You’re on Fire Island.

J: I’m on Fire Island. Come! Wait.

H: Wait. That’s so fun. I’ve never been.

J: Wait, but so let’s say hypothetically, I clone myself, and I’m here. I’m also here. What would we want to do? And then we’ll just, if we don’t make it happen, we’ll do it in 2023.

H: Well, the thing is this, I feel like I haven’t been able to go out that much in New York as an adult because whenever I’m there, all I do is comedy shows. So is there… There’s no lesbian bars in L.A. or Chicago. Are there lesbian bars in New York?

J: Yep. We’ll take you to lesbian bars. We’ll do Cubby Hole.

H: Okay.

J: I’ve only been to Cubby Hole on Margarita night where they have, I think it’s like $2 of $3 Margaritas, and I feel like everyone’s 20 and a half, and…

H: No. That doesn’t sound fun.

J: No, but I think you just need to do it to do it. And then I think the one… From what I understand, the great one is Ginger’s, which is in Park Slope, so we can go there. And then I also feel like the gay bars have a nice… Some of the gay bars have a nice lesbian contingent as well.

H: Okay. Amazing. And what’s your favorite one?

J: I really like Exley, and I like Nowhere Bar are probably my two favorite gay bars.

H: I like the vibe of Nowhere, so I think if we go out, hypothetically, we go to Nowhere Bar. We start out at one of the lesbian places just so I can get a vibe, but then of course, it’s going to get snoozy fast because they’re lesbians.

J: Wait, these are all on the same train. We could start… We could go just right across the L on all three of these.

H: That’s what we’ll do.

J: Okay, perfect.

H: That sounds really fun because honestly, if I get really successful, I’m going to just open a lesbian bar in like Chicago when I’m 50 because it makes me sick that there aren’t any.

J: No. That’s amazing, and I’ll feel really safe in those spaces, so I think what we’ll also do is I’m going to have you bring me one of those weed sodas. I’m going to try one.

H: Yes. You’ll love them. I use Wonder.

J: Okay, cool, but if you bring the 20 milligram, I will die, and you will be charged with manslaughter. I need the 5.

H: No. You’re going to get really cute. We’re going to kiss.

J: Perfect.

H: Thank you so much for having me. I really, really loved it.

J: This was so fun.

Thank you so much for listening to “Going Out With Jake Cornell.” If you could please go and rate and review us on whatever you’re listening to this on, that would be really gorgeous for me in a huge way, so thank you.

And now, for some credits. “Going Out With Jake Cornell” is recorded in New York City and is produced by Keith Beavers and Katie Brown. The music you’re hearing is by Darbi Cicci. The cover art you’re probably looking at was photographed by M. Cooper and designed by Danielle Grinberg. And a special shout-out to VinePair co-founders Adam Teeter and Josh Malin for making all of this possible.