This week, Jake goes out with comedians and hosts of “Celebrity Memoir Book Club,” Claire Parker and Ashley Hamilton. The three discuss friend breakups, confrontation, and why they hate loud restaurants and long lines. Tune in for more.

Listen Online

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

Or Check Out the Conversation Here

Jake Cornell: Wait, this is so fun. This is not my first duo interview, but it’s been a minute and this is very fun, I love having you on either side. This is really great. Okay, wait, so we were just sh*t talking Blank Street, we were just talking about coffee, but you said you had a crazy experience in Fort Greene last night.

Claire Parker: I did. Okay. So last night I went and got dinner in Fort Greene, and I wasn’t even planning to get dinner, I was planning to go on a walk, we were planning on getting to-go drinks at Walter’s and then to going, but it turns out you can’t do that anymore, the pandemic’s over, did you know?

J: Yeah. You can’t do the to-go drinks.

C: They brought it back for the summer, but I guess the pandemic’s back over.

Ashley Hamilton: Okay. How long does it take to pass a law? Because I feel like the way that they have just been turning it on and off…

C: I do think it’s-

A: Feels like they could do something about other problems.

C: It’s a tweet, I think when a time comes to to-go drinks, they’re just like, “When I tweet, ‘It’s on,’ it’s on, and when I tweet, ‘It’s off,’ it’s off, so you have to leave notifications on.

J: It’s a little bit of that, and I also think it’s a little bit of restaurants doing it, getting in trouble and then being like, “Actually the law changed,” and it’s like, “No, you just stopped doing it,” do you know what I mean?

C: I really do think they maybe just had no plastic cups and they were like, “Ah, Kathy Hochul,” or whatever her name is.

J: There is one manager, that’s work… No but it’s like there’s one manager that’ll let them do it and there’s like one that won’t, do you know what I mean?

C: Yes.

J: It’s just something like that and they’re just like lying-

C: It’s very much good parent, bad parent and whoever was working that night just didn’t feel like going to the other parent and getting a second.

J: Yeah. It’s like when I worked in restaurants and if the customer really wanted to do something and we, for whatever reason, couldn’t do it or I didn’t feel like it, I would say it was against fire code, that was like my go-to.

A: I love that. You can’t argue with fire code.

J: “Can I get a carbonara to go,” and I was like, “It’s actually really against the fire code,” and I was like, “Sorry.”

C: I used to tell people we were closed sometimes.

J: That’s actually a huge issue.

C: And then I remember one time, I worked during college, my last semester of college I worked at Lucy’s Cantina Royale, which is a restaurant next door to Penn Station, it is a rooftop.

J: Did they make you wear the dress?

C: Yes. Oh, you know exactly what I’m talking about. The dress and the cowboy boots and I was always like, “This isn’t cultural appropriation because there is no culture that does Hawaiian, denim, tank dresses and cowboy boots from Payless.”

J: Yes. One of my best friends, Casey and I became… We were taking a UCB class together and after class one day we weren’t close yet and we were like, “Do you want to go drink a pitcher of Margaritas at that weird place?” And we did, now we’re best friends.

C: Okay. So I worked there-

A: You used to spill the Margarita all over yourself.

C: Oh, my God.

J: You served us the jalapeño pitcher we had.

C: I hope so, they had those things called a Corona-Rita or whatever where they do a Margarita in a big plastic cup with a Corona on top, the amount of times people would bump into me and just the entire slushy and Corona would go down my dress and I never washed that dress because I lived it at work or I left it at work, which was disgusting, and then when I finally quit, I took the dress home with me and I remember my dad washed it and he had to soak it in the tub like it was a sofa cushion from a vintage shop, he just left it in there and the dirt that came pouring out of it was six months of Margaritas, though.

J: That’s so vile.

A: Disgusting.

C: $4,000 of Margaritas.

A: Walter’s.

J: Yeah. Where we had to-

C: Walter’s. Okay. So I got there and the hostess was the sweetest woman in the world, she actually listened to our podcast so she knew me.

A: I love that.

C: And she was like, “What’s up?” And I was like, “What’s up?” And she’s like, “We have a celebrity here and now we have you,” and I was like… And those are two different… So we have celebrity and we have somebody with a TikTok account, the two highest forms of American currency, and so I was like, “Who is it?” And she’s like, “It’s Louis C.K,” and I was like, “Wild,” and then I was like, “I think he is still an active predator, I’ve heard.” And she’s like-

A: From reliable sources.

C: And then she’s like-

A: He’s bad still.

J: Yeah. But it’s not like he was like, “I’m going to get better,” that’s not what he said he was going to do.

A: She was like, I’m sorry I hurt your feelings.

C: And then-

A: I’m sorry you were bothered by that.

C: I guess I thought you would’ve been quieter about it but I guess once it’s out it’s out.

J: Yeah.

C: Anyway, so she sets us next to him, he’s getting dinner with Darren Aronofsky.

J: Oh, my God.

C: So evil men central. For those of you who don’t know, Darren Aronofsky did “Requiem for a Dream” he did “Black Swan” and then he did “Mother” where he famously dated Jennifer Lawrence and then made her scream until her lungs exploded or something.

A: Yeah.

C: Horrific.

J: I saw “Mother” and felt physically sick after, one of the worst experiences of my life.

C: Yes.

J: I mean, that’s the purpose of the movie then they achieved what they were going for.

J: But for what? There’s already so much sickness on the planet.

A: That’s not a noble cause to me.

J: No. That was the thing, I was like, “I don’t know why I needed this,” I was like, “Good job at achieving this, I don’t know why you wanted to achieve it,” do you know what I mean?

C: Sometimes you can just not say something, and I think that’s a fact that a lot of influencers forget or content creators forget. It’s something that I strive to remember that you don’t actually have to say something about everything, not every point needs to be made.

A: Darren Aronofsky is my least favorite influencers, content creator. I will say, though, there are male directors who their whole goal with a project is to f*ck you up, and you’re like, “But why?”

J: My favorite quote of all time.

A: Why can’t your goal be to make me laugh?

J: This is a true fact, my favorite celebrity quote of literally all time, is a quote, I have corroborated it multiple times because every time I say it out loud I doubt that it’s true, a few years ago, because you know how James Cameron’s been making “Avatar 2” for 15 years at this point.

A: Is he still doing that?

J: It’s coming out in December.

C: Enough.

J: So-

C: Enough with the Avatars, find a real alien.

J: Three.

C: We have the technology.

J: Three years ago, they were like, tell us about “Avatar 2” and James Cameron’s quote on “Avatar 2,” he literally goes, this is the headline on the Hollywood Reporter, “James Cameron says Avatar 2 will make you sh*t your pants with your mouth wide open.”

C: Oh, my God. I hope so, humans centipede-style.

J: What?

A: I want him sued for that, that is a bad goal for a movie, that is not noble art for anyone who gave him funding to make that f*cking sh*t show.

J: Wait, so you’re sitting in Walter’s?

C: I’m sitting in Walter’s, they are discussing how great “Stranger Things” is, Darren Aronofsky, I didn’t know who he was at first, but I knew he was famous and my fear was that he was a comedian I didn’t recognize and I felt like a fraud in my own craft being like, “I bet that’s a famous comedian, I don’t recognize him and I’m not doing my homework well,” and then I made them go look at the names and they came back and they called him Seth for some reason, they’re like, his name is, “Seth,” and they’re like, “But he did ‘Requiem for a Dream,’” and I was like, “Hmmm,” and I looked it up and I was like, “No, that was Darren.” Anyway, he was thinking he wanted to get a movie made but somebody was like, “You need to study ‘Stranger Things’ because that’s the thing B,” and then Louis C.K. goes, “That’s one of the best things that’s been made in the decade is ‘Stranger Things,’” and I’m like, “Interesting.”

A: Shut up.

C: So who knew “Stranger Things” was the artist’s art.

J: That is really wild.

C: Okay. So this is the general crazy part, so they’re sitting there, I’m trying not to listen, we could not have been closer, I cannot.

J: The tables are close.

C: And I looked up online because I was trying to send a diagram to my friends to be like, “You don’t understand how close I was with these people.”

A: You tried to find a diagram of the restaurant on the internet?

C: Well, I tried to find photo of the-

J: Like a seating chart?

C: I tried to get into their POS or whatever it was called, I was like-

J: She’s like hacking Resy.

A: If the hostess could possibly DM Claire the seating chart, I think she’d really appreciate it.

C: No, I was looking on Google for photos of outside so I could express to people, but on the photos outside the tables are staggered, when I was there they were not staggered, they were clearly pushed together for a four top and then slightly spread for a two top, so we were 10 inches away, we were closer than you and I are right now.

J: That’s intense.

C: And we’re in a closet so I know you guys can’t see. Anyway, so they’re sitting there and I’m trying not to listen, but also if something drifts into my ear, I can’t help it, it’s public property is the air.

A: No. It’s not eavesdropping if they’re within the spread of your ear.

J: No, the premise of eavesdropping is that you’re up in the eaves of a roof. You were sitting next to them.

C: Yeah. We were sharing a meal more or less.

J: Yeah. Like you’re in the eaves listening from above.

C: I’ve never heard that, I’ve never even heard the word eaves.

A: I thought eves was at night and at night you’re listening close.

J: I’m like eav. No, it’s EAV.

A: Evening. Evening listening.

J: Okay. So you have your little megaphone up to listen to these two.

C: And it’s just my ear, my megaphone is my ear and I cannot help it that I have acute listening and I have ADD. So even when I’m talking to somebody, I’m listening. Anyway, so they get up and go and we were like, wow, New York City, baby, you could just sit next to anybody.

A: You could sit next to anybody. Oh my God, this story gets so crazy.

C: So then we’re sitting, I’m still having a conversation, we’re having a long dinner and I hear, oh my God is that a famous podcaster? But ironically said as a joke and I look and who do I see? This is not for the general public, this is going to use backstory. But in March I went through a horrific best friend breakup where my best friend of 10 years, the person I love most sent me an email basically being, I’ve thought about it and you’re not someone I want to be friends with anymore. And it was vicious. It sent me back to therapy. It was like my spring revolved around that literally.

A: That’s like the sequel to “Mother”.

C: It’s all.

J: I like “Mothers 2.”

C: It’s like “Requiem for a Dream”.

A: It really makes you uncomfortable and you throw up.

C: It was very “Black Swan,” actually, I guess, right? That’s a female dynamic.

A: Yeah. Yeah.

C: So that was truly the worst thing that happened to me this year, I would say. And a big factor I think in our breakup was she had a new boyfriend who I do believe went in there and exacerbated.

J: Spencer Pratt. Like Spencer Pratt.

A: A Spencer Prat character who really comes in and then when he has her ear at home, it’s like, Claire was a b*tch to you.

C: Yeah. Exactly. And so they live in Wisconsin so it’s not a problem. I don’t see them. I turn to my right and it’s f*cking him.

J: No it’s not.

C: It’s literally probably my biggest enemy in the world. Not like my enemy, but the person who has caused me the most physical pain in the last five years that I would want the least.

J: He wasn’t with her?

C: No. He was meeting with a friend and he, they’re from Wisconsin. He had-

A: Why was he here in her space? I didn’t even know it was in Brooklyn.

J: Why didn’t you say anything. That’s the craziest-

C: Because I didn’t notice him. And then he was rude to, I was sitting there with my friend and so we had to say hi and introduce each other and he was rude to my friend in this really weird way because he works in podcasts and the guy, he actually works in podcasts. So we were all like ah, podcasts.

J: I’m sorry. People work in podcasts in Wisconsin.

C: Yeah, I do believe-.

A: You can do it anywhere.

J: Sorry. Yeah. Okay.

C: If you have internet. But he produces that.

A: But they have internet in Wisconsin, which a lot of people don’t know.

C: It’s relatively new.

J: Just like it’s fine.

C: It’s coming out with “Avatar 2.”

A: They run wires through blocks and cheese.

C: But of all the people in the world to sit within 10 feet of me.

J: No, that’s true.

C: Or 10 inches.

J: That’s true. Yeah.

C: And I was just like, he did say this weird thing. So my friend, she’s a TikToker, Cici, she was a lawyer and now she’s becoming an author. And I was like, oh this is her. She’s a lawyer, author, and she’s like, “Yeah, I’m actually also thinking of doing a podcast.” And I swear to God, he goes, “Yeah cause there aren’t enough already”.

J: Iconic. Slay.

C: And I was like, what an insanely rude thing to say to somebody you’re meeting for truly 30 seconds that you’ll never see again.

A: If there’s too many podcasts, how about yours goes away, guy.

C: And I think he’s in the business of producing one-off podcasts for companies. So I’m kind of like, meh, I don’t know man.

A: One-off podcast.

C: He’ll do a season.

A: Okay. I was like, “One-off podcast? It’s just a voice note”.

J: Wow.

C: So anyway, I was just like, is this the table for the most evil men in the world? Why am I sitting here? I felt like I was in “Friends” because New York is huge. There’s so many-

J: No. That’s really crazy.

C: Even in this restaurant, if he had been sitting literally anywhere else, I wouldn’t have noticed him.

J: Yeah. That’s what cursed about it. So Walter’s, it’s not like if you’re visiting from Wisconsin, you’re going to Fort Greene. That’s-

A: I thought you were in the West Village last night for some reason. Because that just made the most sense to me of why you would’ve seen Louis CK and also someone who was in town for a weekend.

J: That’s what I am saying.

C: Fort Greene is the New Yorker’s West Village.

J: Yeah.

A: Interesting.

C: I always explain, I have finance West Village friends and I’m always like, oh, you should move to Brooklyn. And I think they don’t really understand why, but I’m-

J: Going to stay there. Stop doing that. Why are you promoting that? Let them stay there.

C: But I’m just like-

A: Those are two nice ones.

C: Fort Greene is West Village without tourists. It literally is the most expensive place in the world. It’s all just cafes. But it’s a little bit less crowded because nobody knows about it who doesn’t live in New York?

J: That’s true. Except apparently now they do.

C: Well I guess Louis CK lived in New York and this guy was there with a local.

J: Okay.

C: It was a local, but it was just like, only on TV do you run into people, I never see people out and about.

J: Yeah. I’m trying to think of it.

A: I do a lot. We both do.

C: You’ve never seen someone that doesn’t live in this state’s random boyfriend who ruins your life and caused you the most pain anyone’s caused you in the last half decade.

A: No. But that hasn’t happened to me.

C: But I’m sure someone’s caused pain.

A: Yeah.

C: And if they were your hometown, a suburb of Chicago and you randomly sat next to them when you’d be random.

A: I would definitely think it’s random.

J: Yeah. I don’t have enemies as the issue. I don’t feel like I have an enemy that I would see and be like, that’s my enemy. This is crazy.

A: Yes.

C: I cannot relate to you. I don’t relate to you. No. I can’t even fathom. I have some. Oh my gosh, really? Oh, you’re just likable I guess. And you’re nice to people.

J: I think I’m very conflict averse. I’m very conflict averse. And I sense that you’re not.

C: Look at the way I’m looking at you, I’m like, “Do you want me to help you”? I can start a fight with you right now, just to give you some practice.

J: I just don’t like a burnt bridge. I’d rather just build a new bridge or find a different one and leave that bridge for whatever. But I just don’t, I’m rare to burn a bridge. I’m really rare to burn a bridge.

C: See, I’m very quick-witted and so sometimes I just can’t help what flies out of my mouth.

A: I’m very quick to burn a bridge because I’m just like, if this bridge is creaky I will smash it. F*ck you.

C: Has that always been true for you?

J: Are you both fire signs?

A: No. But it’s definitely been true in the last six or seven years for me.

C: Interesting. What burns have you bridged? What bridges have you burned?

A: I mean every time that I’ve been low key a little bit fired and then I’ve gone on a podcast to tell every single detail of the story. Every time that I’ve been in a relationship where things are starting to not go well and then I’ve gone on a podcast to tell every inch of the story. I feel like a lot-

C: You’re just like Darren Aronofsky. All of the vitriol goes into content.

A: All I also in real life, if something is, I don’t know. I’ve definitely gotten into arguments with people in the road before.

C: Yeah. What about you? Do you have any bridges you have to burn now that you have been weighing on you? This is a safe space.

J: It’s a recorded podcast on video and audio. I truly don’t. I talk a lot of sh*t about one restaurant I used to work at and the people who own it. But I bleep it. I don’t even want it out there that I just don’t, I don’t know.

A: Yeah.

C: I mean No, no, no. I’m sure you live a much happier life than me. I wish I was like that.

J: I do and I don’t though. I bet I don’t. I think there’s a lot of energy that gets wasted in the not doing it and I really respect that you do it. Do you know what I mean? But I also think there is the satisfaction of when you don’t burn the bridge and then you see the bridge decay and crumble on its own because of karma. That is deeply satisfying. Do you know what I mean? I just think… Wait, sorry.

C: Yeah. Go. Go. Go.

J: Okay. This is a prime example. I have a list on my phone of people who I…  it’s just for me. This is just for me and these are celebrities and public people, most of whom I haven’t met. Some of them I have. And I just, it’s a list for me that is people I know in my soul will get canceled.

A: Can you tell us off mic?

J: I’ll take you off mic. I’ll tell you off mic and I have a very high success rate.

C: Well, I can say something and I don’t want to be mean.

J: Let me just say that the Try Guys-

C: I don’t want to be mean but who wouldn’t? It’s everyone. Even Anne Hathaway got in trouble for just being annoying.

J: That doesn’t count. That doesn’t count. That doesn’t count. I’m talking about ruin their careers. Ruin their image. What they have comes crumbling down for a second.

C: For a second. Yeah. That’s good.

J: Yeah.

C: No man can really be kept down.

J: The Try Guys are going to be fine. But yesterday, they were on my list. Do you know what I mean? And I just personally find that very gratifying. Do you know what I mean?

A: Yeah. I guess I like to have said my piece because I feel like I was a doormat for a really long time in my life. And so then I think I swung back the other way a little too hard. But also, there’s a lot of things where I’ll not say something and then hugely regret it for a long time. Because I’m just like, why do they get to walk away thinking that we were fine? You know what I mean? I don’t like that. I want them to know that we’re not cool and they should never speak to me again because I hate them.

C: You know what I think I do? Because I wouldn’t say I necessarily burn bridges. And it’s funny because in this friendship specifically.

A: You don’t burn bridges. You say your piece.

C: And then I treat everybody like a sibling relationship. I was raised with a brother, we would fight, we would scream at each other and then within two hours we were watching “Road Rules.” Do you know what I mean? We were watching “The Real World.” We were watching “Degrassi.” I have a big thing, I’ll be upset and I’ll tell you, but I forgive and I also will apologize. And I think-

J: That’s healthy.

C: It’s not healthy because nobody else actually operates that way.

J: How do they think they should?

C: And so I think with this friendship actually if you look at the last two years there’s been a lot of cracks and whatever. And she’s going through her Ashley moment right now where she’s like “anybody who’s wronged me that I feel I haven’t spoken up about, I’m going to put my foot down.” And I think she put her foot down harder than she would’ve liked. Whereas she feels very hurt by being. Because every time she was hurting me, I would say something about it. So in her perspective she’s been, “Well, my hurt has gone unrecognized. And meanwhile Claire’s always mad at me” and I’m like, “Well, I’m mad because you’re hurting me.” And then instead of her coming back and being like, “Well this is upsetting me,” she did a one and done blow. And I do wonder if she’s happy with how that went. I do think that maybe she’s like, ooh, maybe I didn’t need to cut it out hard.

J: It’s interesting because I think what I’m hearing from you is I feel like it’s that people, you’re really willing to dish it and people forget that probably means that you’re willing to take it.

C: Yes. I also think because I am an intense person, I’m finding out if you are somebody who sees yourself as a victim, it’d be very easy to be like, “Well, Claire hurt my feelings and I did nothing wrong.” If you’re not someone who wants to see yourself as somebody who’s capable of hurting another, it’d be very easy for you to be like, “And I’m innocent.” As opposed to like, oh, Claire was mad because she was hurt first. Claire’s mad out of nowhere. And I think that that was our pattern where she’s like, “Claire randomly said something harsh to me,” and it’s like, yeah because I was so hurt by you but it’d be easy to be like and I’ve never heard anybody so why… She’s just harsh from nowhere.

J: Have either of you ever worked in restaurants?

A: Yes.

C: I worked as a waitress for 10 years.

J: Oh, interesting because I was going to say, I think part of the reason I’m conflict averse is because I, for so long, had to get treated like sh*t and having to swallow it. Do you know what I mean? And I think that just became muscle memory for me.

A: Yeah. I think that’s very common. And I think that especially in the millennial workplace setting overall, I think that there’s been a lot of, you just deal with everything and it’s just the way it is. And I think that that is true in a lot of senses. And I think that doing standup is what helped me break out of swallowing every adverse opinion that I have. Because I was like, no, I’m just going to say my piece and that just is what it is. And I don’t walking away from a situation, because I feel like a lot of times in my mind I’m like, they need to know what the f*ck happened. Because I feel like that was a big thing for me. Especially moving from L.A. to New York. L.A. is a deeply conflict-averse city. And so things would happen there where you thought you were communicating and then things go the opposite way that you thought they were. And then you were like, what happened? At work all the time when I worked in L.A. as an example, my boss would just constantly tell me that I was doing a good job. And I’d be like, is this okay? And they’d be like, yeah that’s great. And then there was a promotion that I got fully passed over for and I was like, why? And then I moved to New York and I had a boss who just every time I did something wrong was telling me what I did wrong. And I was like, this hurts more but it’s better because I know that I’m not doing a good job. I didn’t know I wasn’t doing a good job there and I don’t want to live like that anymore. And I don’t want other people to think that they’re doing a good job when they suck.

J: A hundred percent. I was at an event recently where someone had to bring their child unexpectedly, their child care fell through and they had to bring a child. And then the event planner of this event was talking to this little girl and talking about being like, oh my God, she’s so cute, da da. Like oh she has my niece’s name, whatever. And then she went over to another event planner and was like, hey, that’s really not the vibe. You need to get them to leave. And I was like, that’s f*cking nasty.

A: Yes.

J: But it’s that thing of being, it’s the conflict aversion thing, which is why time back, I think your being pro-conflict is healthier. I respect it more.

C: Thank you. I feel one thing that I can guarantee my friends, I’m not a perfect friend. I try but I am, if you’re an anxious person who’s like, “Oh no, does this person hate me cause they didn’t text me back,” you never have to worry about that with me. Because if I’m upset I will say something about it or I’ll swallow it until I know I can move on. And I think that’s a gift I give people because I would hate to be on the other side and be talking to someone that I didn’t know was secretly letting something fester. And I feel like it’s because I will accept an apology if I’m like, “Hey, this hurt my feelings.” And you’re like, “Oh my God, I’m sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.” I’ll take it and move on. And I feel like I’ve appreciated it when people have done that for me. And some of my best friendships are situations where people have been like, “Oh Claire, you said this in passing. I think you were joking but it actually really hurt.” And I’m like, “Thank you for giving me the opportunity to apologize because obviously I don’t want to hurt your feelings. I love you, you’re my friend.” So I try to do that for people. But I do think a lot of people find it confrontational and don’t like it when I’m trying to do it from a kind place of being like, “I want to give you the opportunity to apologize because I know you didn’t mean to hurt me.” But really they’re like, “Stop accusing me of being mean.”

J: Right. I’m realizing I think the thing with me is that if I know that the conversation will go well, if it’s someone… I do have one friend who recently, there was a time where he clearly brushed off something I said in a way that made me think that he clearly thought this person isn’t intelligent enough to talk about this. I don’t want to engage with him. And I texted him the next day being like, “Hey, that made me feel really sh*tty and I didn’t like it.” And he apologized and I knew that he was the person who would hear it and receive it. But then I have other people who I love or whatever, but I also know how defensive they get if you bring it or how much they shut down. And I’m like, “I’m not going to do this labor for this thing that I know is not going to go well and maybe I should give them the chance.” But I think there are some people that I know that they’re not. I just have seen how they’ve handled it in the past. And so I’m like, I’m not going to go. I’m not going to have this confrontation that I don’t think is going to be productive so then I’ll just swallow it and move on.

C: Oh, yeah.

A: I think that also comes with tears of friendship. If you have a best friend and you feel like they can’t receive criticism or conversations about things that hurt your feelings or whatever, that’s really hard. But I feel like I have best friends, I have party and social friends where you’re like, yeah, we hang out at bars and get drunk together. But those are people that I probably wouldn’t confront for the most part.

J: Yeah.

C: I will just start slowly fading them out. I’m like, oh well, I don’t need to-

J: Oh, totally. Totally.

C: But yeah, I mean me and Ashley fight a lot and I will say it tends to start with me having a tone and Ashley, well not even, but I feel like you’ll be more sensitive, you’ll be upset about other things. I feel like our pattern is, I’m harsh in the way I speak. Yeah, you’ll be upset about something else and then my thing will pile on and then you’ll be upset with me and then I’m like, you’re being mad at me unfairly because what I did wasn’t that bad. But then we’ll take space and I’ll come back and I feel like I do always, I genuinely, when we cool down, I always come back and sincerely apologize and then you’ll be like, thank you for apologizing. Also, low key, I got into a fight with this person this morning.

A: She’ll apologize for what she said and I’ll apologize for escalating it.

J: This sounds very healthy.

A: Yeah.

J: It sounds like a lot of very healthy conversations.

A: I do definitely have a temper that I’m working on in random situations. I definitely do have… I think we both sometimes explode for not really a reason. I don’t know.

C: I have a tone.

A: Yeah. Yeah.

C: My boyfriend is very “united front, we’re a team, blah, blah blah.” And so when we go out and if I’ve fought with people, he’ll have my back there and then we get home, he’ll be like, “Claire, you were totally right. I agree with what you’re saying. I do think the way you said it was maybe in no way conducive.”

J: That’s so funny.

C: Screaming at somebody that they’re f*cking stupid and should read a book. I don’t know that that was going to help them see your life.

J: So it is just so now we’re talking about you seeing a stranger out that’s pissing you off doing something f*cked up.

C: No. If somebody that I’m mutuals with I think is crossing the line in terms of what they’re saying being problematic, I’ll be like, “Shut the f*ck up.”

J: Interesting.

C: That was that time.

A: Can I tell you when I almost went off the handle on a stranger last week and I’m trying to not do that anymore. But I have definitely done it in the past. Okay. So Claire and I went to Washington, D.C. and Philly this weekend for shows. Saturday we took the train back from D.C., so we were on a train for four hours and then I picked my dog up at a babysitter in Chelsea. Then we got on the train. I gave my dog a chew toy so that she would lay at my feet on the train and not bother anyone. And her foot was touching — it was a not crowded train, by the way, on a Saturday afternoon — and someone got on at the same time as us and stood in front of where we were and my dog’s foot was touching her foot. And she looks at me and goes, “Can you move your dog?” And I moved her and I spent the rest of the train ride being like, “Do not flip out. Do not flip out. Do not flip out.” I truly wanted to be like, “There is so much space on this train and if you weren’t such a horrendous c*nt you would see it. You’d notice the space, but instead you’re zeroed in on being the biggest b*tch you can possibly be.” That was what was in my heart.

C: It’s funny because I think in my interpersonal life, I’m not conflict averse, I’m like, here’s how I feel. And people would not expect this because they think if I’m the b*tch and Ashley is… In real life with strangers and in-

A: I have a hard time not-

C: If Ashley is over it and she’ll get over it quickly, there’s no faking it. Whereas I’m a fake b*tch and I always say this, I’ll talk about anybody. And if I saw them on the street, I’d be like, “Lena Dunham, I love your work!” I am fake as hell. If we’re on a call with somebody I think is absolutely an idiot, I’ll be like, thank you so much. This is so great. If I’m with… The waiter thing.

J: You can do it.

C: I think I know when I can get rid of my ego and I’ve never had a job besides comedy that I cared about. So I think professionally they’ve all just been day jobs. And I’m like, if you fire me, I’ll get another one. I don’t give a sh*t. I’ll be fake. I’ll be fake. It doesn’t touch me as a person really. And I don’t care about the streets. But then somebody I love more than anybody will say something and I’m like, well this is where this must be acknowledged, I don’t know if that’s better. That’s probably worse.

J: But you’ll go off on a stranger.

A: Yeah. And I try not to, and I try to be “pick your battles.” Because I knew, I was like, listen, my dog technically isn’t allowed to be on the train like this on the floor. They’re supposed to be in a bag. So in the broader sense, this is an argument where I’m technically wrong, but they’re being a huge b*tch for literally no reason.

J: A hundred percent.

A: And I can just let them do that or I can not. And I need to just let it go.

J: I’m trying to, so recently, I’ve been looking back on my time in the restaurant industry and thinking about all the times where I really swallowed a conflict like that where I could have been an assh*le. And I’m like, oh, I’m realizing now that I don’t work in restaurants, I misplaced the line. I think I could have gone farther than I did at times. I was like, there’s obviously the line of which you can’t, you can’t call someone a c*nt while you’re working in a restaurant. You can’t do that. But if someone’s being an assh*le, I do think you can push back. I think you can push back. And I never did.

A: But I think that’s actually new. I don’t know. When you stop working in restaurants.

C: Can I tell you the couple times I pushed back in restaurants?

J: Yeah. I’ll tell you mine too.

C: Okay. Well first of all, my go-to restaurant thing was when I did something really-

J: Where did you work in New York?

C: I worked at Lucy’s Cantina Royal. I worked at the restaurant in The Standard I worked-

J: That sounds like hell.

C: And it was before it was the beer garden. So it was dead empty. It was called The Ainsworth or something and not one person would go. So you’d be working for tips. The only day I made a lot of money was when I had to work on Christmas and there were no runners, there were no bussers. It was just me and every European in New York City who was looking for a place to eat because everything else was closed. And then I worked in Hoboken a lot.

J: Oh, nice.

C: So I had worked all through high school and through college and then a little bit after. But whenever I made a huge mistake, I’d always say, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry.” This is my first day. People loved that. It was my first day for two straight years. Every day was my first day. People are really forgiving. I would get drunk businessmen and my line was, if they were sexually inappropriate to me, not only was that not okay.

J: Well obviously, yeah.

C: Obviously. But I would tell one of their friends and I would just be like, “Watch him.” And then they would feel, I remember one time somebody was like, hey, we’ve been waiting for a check for a while. And I was like, yeah, when I tried to bring in the check, your friend put his hand on my ass and said, and he was like, oh sorry. And you know what I mean? If they crossed that line, I would say. But I also feel like I would have an attitude. I mean you can read it on my face.

J: Yeah. But I can’t hide it. If I’m truly seething, I can’t hide it. I, one time working in the, I think I’ve told the story before. One time I was working in Rosemary’s — I bartended it for Rosemary’s in the West Village for years.

C: Hotspot.

J: Hell. And honestly actually a pretty good gig. That’s why I did it for so long. But on certain days the brunches were hell. And one day during a really busy brunch, this woman came up to the bar and she was like, “I need two glasses of Sauvignon Blanc.” And I went, “Oh my God, is there a fire?” And she left.

C: Can I tell you one time when I was working at Lucy’s Cantina Royal, this woman and two men came up and they bought a bunch of stuff, a bunch of drinks. And then they ran out on the bill. And this I now know is illegal, but so at Lucy’s Cantina Royal, it was all male managers and all female waitresses. Only women worked there. And they really took advantage of us. And so one of the things is if someone ditched a bill, it came out of your tips.

J: A hundred percent illegal. A hundred percent illegal.

C: I didn’t know that at the time. I was 21. So I just, whatever, it just, I’m looking at these people who ditch and I’m just sitting there like, f*ck, they spent $200 on drinks and then left. And then 30 minutes later the woman comes back crying, going, oh my God, those men stole my bag. Can I use your phone? They stole all my stuff. I met them randomly in Penn Station and they convinced me to run on the bill and then can you believe that? Then they robbed me. And I was looking at her like, oh lady-

J: You’re out.

C: You think I feel sorry for you?

J: No. No.

C: If you don’t want to be robbed, maybe don’t rob.

J: That’s so audacious that she-

C: Came back to us thinking being like, we’re all victims in this together. And I was like, not 30 minutes ago. 30 minutes ago I was a victim alone. And you were totally cool with that.

J: Wait, that’s one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard. I’m truly in shock.

C: Another thing that used to make me mad is kids would come and they would bring their own alcohol and they’d bring a Four Loko in a white bag and I didn’t give a sh*t. I was 21. I’m not here to be the f*cking police. And so they’d be like, can we get one cup of chips? And they’d get a $5 chip so that they could sit there and drink. And I would be like, I’m not going to say anything. I don’t give a sh*t. And then they would leave and not tip and leave the garbage. And I was like, well this is f*cking rude. I just let you have a nice New York City night for free and this is how you’re going to treat me. The other weird thing about working there was, I always felt women were weirder to me. There was a type of woman, because when you work at Lucy’s you’re wearing that outfit. So I think people thought it was a Hooter’s-esque thing.

J: Totally.

A: It seems like maybe it was.

C: I mean we had an outfit but there I don’t think explicitly it was about the bodies. And also it was a lunch spot because just local people would come during lunch and then they would come before a sporting event.

J: I felt really bad the one time I went there because we sat on the roof and then it was the thing when you… “Yeah, we’ll do the roof.” And then you go, “Wait it’s actually cold.” It was like cuspy winter and this girl was serving us in the dress with a parka on top of it.

C: You weren’t allowed to not ever wear the dress.

J: A full winter jacket.

C: Yeah, it was horrible.

J: But it was unzipped and I was like this-

C: I think it had to be, there was some weird thing where you would just be up there freezing and I was working the roof the day that people came up and said, oh can we get a table? I said, no, we’re closed. And then the manager screamed at me because we weren’t. But I was just like, please don’t make me. I’m freezing. But well, oh yeah, women would come up to me and be drunk and they in a very pick-me sense would be like, “My guy friends will totally take care of you if you like. They’re rich.” And I’m just, at this point, I was a f*cking senior in college and I was like, I don’t need your help. I’m just like this is just a college job. And then I had a woman fully try to give me her credit card one time and be like, “I know what it’s like to be you. I came to the city 10 years ago. I was alone. I didn’t have any money. I didn’t know what I was doing.” And I was like, my parents are from Hoboken. I can see their house from here. I’m fully safe. I’m in college. I’m okay. Don’t give me your credit card psycho.

J: Wait, why is she trying-

A: Feel like that is something that other people would’ve liked. They just picked the wrong one.

J: Why was she giving you her credit card?

C: Because insinuation was, I was a waitress and I was so poor and helpless and stupid and didn’t know my way around the city that she was going to help me.

J: A bad vibe that people were like, “These women are being trafficked.” That was how they were treating you. That’s insane.

C: I was like, I’m from New Jersey. I’m okay.

J: They can’t imagine. No. It’s just like, I want to wear a dress and make 200 bucks a night and it’s fine.

C: And I got paid in cash. So even though they were taking-

J: That’s incredible.

C: From my tips, it was nice to go home every day in cash. And because I was a college student and working basically four or five shifts, I never had time to spend that money. It was the most rich I’ve ever been, honestly.

J: The most rich I’ve ever been was when I worked in restaurants and college and holidays.

C: I had thousands of dollars in cash in my desk drawer in my dorm room with no lock.

J: Iconic. Wait, where did you work?

A: I worked in Illinois, Max and Benny’s Restaurant, Bakery, and Deli. It was like a Katz’s Deli type, but it was a sit-down restaurant. But then on the other half there was a bakery and a deli. So I worked hosting, and then I worked running food and then I worked at the bakery.

J: Gotcha.

A: For four or five years.

J: I felt, because I worked my food service journey began working at Ben and Jerry’s in Vermont.

A: Wow. Oh my God. OG.

J: OG.

A: At headquarters.

J: I was not at the headquarters. I was at the satellite location in Rutland. But what I was going to say is I sometimes felt like people in a rural area, because were you in a rural area or was it metropolitan?

A: No, it was suburban.

J: Suburban. I just felt like people are always like, wow, working in New York City must have been so tough. And I was like, I think I was actually treated worse in Vermont.

A: Well, so it was a restaurant that obviously the clientele was people and their grandparents. It was a grandparents’ restaurant. And so the clientele was evil. They were so mean. It was all people who didn’t, and it was a huge sprawling restaurant. So when I would work the hostess stand, there would be closed sections, obviously because it was an enormous restaurant at lunch on a Tuesday. And then they’d be like, Why can’t I sit there? And that was my entire life was people not understanding a closed section.

J: I snapped at my friend the other day because we went to a restaurant and they were like, it’s going to be a 10-minute wait. And he was like, what about that table? And I was like, you never ask

C: There’s a reason.

A: There’s always a reason.

C: Christmas at the Ainsworth, all these f*cking Belgium people would be like, well I don’t understand why can’t sit at any of the open tables. I’d be like, Have you noticed they’re covered in garbage? It’s because I’m busing, I’m running, I’m serving

J: What is going on in Europe that they will sit at a table that’s on fire. I’m like, why can’t I sit down? I’m like, It’s broken. It’s on fire. There’s a man sh*tting on it. Why do you want to sit there?

C: Can I say the worst thing about my restaurant jobs in New York City was that I only worked at places New Yorkers would never go.

J: Yeah.

C: Ainsworth at The Standard was the one Meatpacking District hotel restaurant that sucked. So you only went there if you didn’t know better, which meant you were a tourist. You were probably from Europe. You were probably in from somewhere that didn’t you…. These people never knew what the bill would be. I never served a bill that did not shock a client to their core. And then you’d watch them be like, well I’m not tipping. And then of course Lucy’s Cantina Royal, the tipping was horrendous.

J: That is, I really deeply, that’s something-

C: I’m saying The Standard, I was at the Ainsworth at-

J: The Standard.

C: No. No. No. Is that The Gansevoort?

J: Oh.

C: Sorry. I auditioned for the Standard. I was specifically told I did not look cool enough. I was at The Ainsworth.

A: Wow.

J: Well, first off a restaurant job that you have to audition for. Literally prison. Prison. Prison.

C: It was The Ainsworth and it doesn’t even exist anymore.

J: But my point was, if you are listening to this in trying to get a restaurant job to float your bills, I think you’re going to make more money at the neighborhood spots than at the cool spots in.

C: Yes.

A: Yeah.

J: Yeah. You are just going to make more money. I should have been, I f*cked up working at these big popular downtown restaurants. I should have been working in these cool small neighborhood spots because that’s where people go and accidentally spend. You’re going to make more money on six tables spending a hundred dollars than two tables spending $200. Do you know what I mean? And I think that’s the trick.

C: Also, people, New Yorkers really take a lot of pride in tipping like 25 percent and I think local-

J: Neighborhood spots, they’re going to see you again. Do you know what I mean? That’s like the thing is they’re going to see you again. They’re going to repeat. So they need to invest. The tipping is actually an investment where if they’re visiting from out of town, they’re like, I don’t care if this person starves. I’m never seeing them again.

A: Yeah. Also, you want people who understand restaurant culture, not someone who sits down at your restaurant and is like, “I don’t understand why you can’t just make a cheeseburger.”

J: That’s truly, yeah. I can’t with that. I actually can’t engage with that. Wait, so where do you guys… So you live in Williamsburg?

A: Yeah, we both do.

J: Do you live in Williamsburg too? Is that where you’re predominantly going out?

C: Going out. Well, no, because I don’t go.

J: You don’t go out?

C: Not really, to be honest. I go to Ashley’s a lot. Ashley walks her dog three times a day. I often join her for a walk or two.

A: That’s Claire’s big night.

J: Are you not like a night person?

C: I don’t know what type of person I am. I have three or four good hours in me a day. I definitely think I was never a nighttime person. I was always like a, “You guys go out, I’ll meet you at the diner after.” I’m not a big drinker.

J: Respect.

C: I like to dance, but very specifically in my own vibe. I don’t know, I’ve never been a big part. I used to do the standup scene used to be my scene and then the pandemic hit and I felt like all these newbies came and pushed me out and now I just feel lost. I’m trying to go to an open mic today, actually, which is humiliating.

J: We’re on a show together on Sunday.

C: I know, it’s because I made a big stink about on my podcast where I was like, nobody books me. And then I think seven people were like, I’ll book you. But it’s-

J: No. Totally. And I know-

A: Who was that? Book me.

J: Podcast. I was going to say, if you’re listening to this podcast, book me. I have a solo show next month and I need to run a lot of sh*t.

A: Oh my God. When’s your solo? Where is it?

J: I’m realizing I said next month. It’s in November, so it’s in a month and a half.

A: It’s fun.

C: But by the time this comes out, it’ll be October. So next month is right.

J: You’re so right. Yeah. I’m doing it for New York Comedy Festival.

A: Fun.

J: Yeah. But I said yes without a show to then make me write a show. So now I have to write a show.

C: That’s genius.

J: That’s how we did my other show, Man and Women, we did the same thing.

C: I would have loved to see that.

J: We are doing it in two weeks.

C: Oh my God. Where is it?

J: Union Hall.

C: Oh, my God.

A: Can I come? We’ll go.

J: Yeah. Yeah. Please come. Please come.

C: I would love to.

J: The 13th.

C: I would invite you guys to our New York City combination FES show, but we sold out in two days, so I’m really sorry, guys. I’m so sorry. It’s been sold out. We actually tried to stop promoting it to hold onto the tickets-

A: We are very, very poor in tickets, but-

C: Rich in ticket sales.

J: No. That’s great. But no. Yeah. You guys should come. It’s in two weeks from Thursday.

C: Oh, my God. Fun. I would love to.

J: It would be very fun. But no, wait, so you’re not doing stand shows and you feel like that was the way in which you were going out?

C: Yeah. That was my social life. I was doing two to three mics a night back in the day.

A: And then also you would have shows. I would do a show and then everyone would hang out afterwards and then I would be home at 3 a.m. and oh, I was left for a show. I don’t know when.

C: I never accidentally went home at 3 a.m. but I would go do a mic at 6 and a mic at 10, then be home by midnight.

A: Yeah. No, I went out. I go out.

C: Ashley’s fun.

J: Yeah. Where do you go out? What do you like to do?

A: I mean, I like to dance.

J: Bless.

A: I like to drink with my friends.

C: She likes to chat.

A: I like to chat.

J: What are your spots?

A: I go to Nicky’s Unisex sometimes with my friends.

C: Do you really?

A: Yeah. I’ve gone there a couple times with Neve. I like the vibe there.

C: I’ll go.

A: Okay.

C: Can I tell you what I think my problem is with going out?

J: I don’t know what this place is. I’m not cool.

C: We used to have a weekly show there. It’s on South Fourth in Williamsburg.

A: I guess that’s the thing is I’ve never liked clubs. I’ve never been a, “These are the going out spots and I go to them.” I like a place that has music and drinks and tables. And then some nights people just make it a dancing place, but it’s not a club.

J: Sure. Like a lounge that has a dancing quality to it. Loungey bar.

A: Loungey bar.

C: A dive bar with a, I feel like-

A: A dive bar with some open space and a good playlist.

J: Is Nicky’s Unisex a dive?

C: No. It’s like a chic dive. It’s like a dive for people in their 30s in Williamsburg. It’s like a dive for creative directors.

A: Yeah.

J: Okay.

A: I’m trying to think where else I even go.

C: It’s a lot of Australian graphic designers who do the merch for Lil Nas X’s kind of type.

J: Yeah. I hear that. Are you a restaurant person at all?

A: She’s a restaurant girl.

C: I love restaurants. And here’s the thing, here’s what I realized recently is my problem with going out is I get really tired really easily, and it’s because I’m so loud and I like to chat and I like it when people can hear me. I’m a loud speaker and if the music is loud, I’m going to be louder than the music so you can hear me. Which I think is, people hate it, but I’m trying to be polite. I think it’d be rude to be talking away when you can’t hear. But then the problem is, it means if I’m out somewhere loud and I’m screaming, I’m now screaming for an hour and by 11:30 p.m. I’m burnt out and I must go to sleep. So I can drink all night with friends in a quiet place. And I’ve gone to a dinner that’s lasted forever and I would love to dance. However, I can’t be screaming and I scream.

A: My biggest pet peeve is a bar that isn’t quite a dancing bar. It’s more of a chat and hangout bar. But the music is so loud that you can’t really chat.

J: No. That is the worst.

A: And then you’re just like, well, what is this for then?

J: No. That’s the worst.

A: You are taking up space in a very crowded city.

J: Yeah. I agree that that is specifically the worst. When you’re sitting and the vibe is good and every time a really nice conversation and then you see a DJ set up and there’s no dance floor. It’s like, why are we doing that?

A: Yeah. Don’t do that.

C: There’s a restaurant in Williamsburg across the street from me that opened. It is a Greek restaurant and I think they think they’re in the Lower East Side. It is very much set up for groups of finance boys who are 23 who are about to start a night and their music blares. And that’s very much not the vibe in Williamsburg. And I’m just like, who is this restaurant for? This is insane. It’s trying to be Bagatelle on Bedford and 10th.

J: Yeah. We sound old, but I do hate a loud restaurant musically.

A: Yeah.

C: I’m sorry. Nobody on a Tuesday at 8:30 p.m. at a Greek restaurant is trying to do cocaine.

J: No. Because I want to be able to hear what Darren Aronofsky is saying to Louis CK.

A: Exactly.

J: I can’t be too loud for that.

C: I cannot.

J: Okay. So it’s like your restaurant, your bar and then together you can share one night out essentially.

A: Yeah.

C: I’ll start a night and then I’ll go home early and I will say something about me is, I’m not one that’s like, well, I want to go home, everyone go. I’ll just take myself home.

J: I respect that. I think, first of all, saying “I’m going home everyone has to stop hanging out” is one of the most psychotic things.

C: No. But you know what? Because I also have a boyfriend who likes to, he can stay out all night. He does that a lot. But when I say that I think I’m not a girlfriend who’s out with my boyfriend.

J: Sure. You’ll be like, I’m out. But you keep going.

C: Literally I’ll be like, you have fun. I’m never going to say-

J: Are you a morning person? Are you up early?

C: I love a morning. If I have gone to bed past midnight, I will not naturally wake up early. But I do. I’m never happier than when I’m in a routine of naturally waking up at like 6:30, 7, same. And so that’s when I feel my happiest. I love a morning time. I love a stoop, to have a coffee on a stoop. I don’t have a stoop but I fantasize-

A: You go to stoops.

C: I’ll sit on other people’s stoops like an old lady.

J: Yeah, I think that I love a night but naturally my body wants morning. I want as much sunlight as possible.

A: Yeah.

C: I also feel like because I have fun with my friends all the time, I don’t need to put a lot of effort into having fun. So anything where there might be a barrier to entry, I’m just like, I’ll see you tomorrow. I hang out with Ashley’s every f*cking day.

A: I don’t like lines. I don’t like cover charges. Here’s my thing that I’ve always said since I was in college, it’s been a very unpopular opinion, especially when I was in my early 20s. I will not go somewhere with a line because if I’m going out with a group of friends and we are all mostly just going to hang out with each other and we’re going out to have fun with each other, why would we go somewhere that has a line when we can go to the place a hundred feet away that doesn’t have a line. We are going to talk to the same people the whole time.

J: Oh, I’m 100 percent on board. I’m not waiting in the line.

A: God, I used to live in L.A. and my friends would always want to go to this place called Harvard and Stone and it was like this bar and there would always be a line.

C: Harvard and Stone seems like the headline of a book about Harvard murders. Maybe the lacrosse kid murdered everybody with this stone.

A: I would throw a fit about it. I would like, every time there was a couple bars that they would always want to go to because they were hot spots at the time and I would have a meltdown.

J: Yeah. I can’t be going to… It’s also, they’re the worst bars. The ones with the lines are always the worst.

A: God. And it was like 2013 Los Angeles so it was just full of guys in white button-ups who were like, it was so crazy.

J: I’m just remembering now that the last time I was in L.A. I was hanging out with my friends and it was a very, I haven’t spent enough time in L.A. to be like, this is very L.A. but it felt very cliche L.A. where it was someone’s manager had gotten us on a list and we were cutting a line to go see this thing in a bar

C: The last time.

J: So we did that and I had a great time. The show was amazing. The bar was fun enough. I come outside there, I’m not exaggerating, I’m going to say there’s 125 people waiting in line to go into this bar. And I was like, I actually wanted to go speak to this bar and be, why? What is it about this bar that you were in line for? I don’t understand.

C: The last time I was on a list, it was an influencer there that we’re friends with invited us to a fashion party at the ***.

J: Wait. Wait. Wait. I went to this party but the list was a nightmare and I couldn’t get in, was it?

A: Yes. Yes.

C: Yes. And I had an outfit on and I showed up and getting in line with 19-year-olds and watching them get in. And then when Noah Beck cut the line and went in, I was traumatized. I was like, never again.

A: Never again.

C: I would’ve stayed home and had pizza.

J: I got on the— I was— Oh my god, wait this is so many. I went to the same exact party last year.

C: Wish we had found each other.

A: Me too.

C: We would have gone pizza together.

J: No. That would’ve been so much better. Well actually what happened was I was with my friend who also knows her and she put us both on the list and-

C: What was the name?

A: What list?

J: Well that was the thing. Nothing, well, I walk up to the, I’m like, I see the line and I’m like, well, if I’m on a list, I’m certainly not waiting on that line. And then I go up to the front and I go, hi, I’m on Blank’s list. And they were like, what list? And everyone in line heard and I was like, I’m not going. I texted her and I think she was like, I’m trying but it’s a mess. And I was like okay. And then me and my friend went to Corner Bistro because it was down the street.

C: And that’s where we went with Caroline Calloway.

A: No. That’s where we went with-

C: Oh, Fluently Ford.

A: Yes.

C: No. Okay. Literally. And I’m an early bird. So one thing about me is I recently went to Flower Shop a few months ago because my friend was having a birthday party downstairs and I got there so early that he was like, I got there at 9 and he is like, we’re going to get there at midnight. And so that’s the kind of person I am. It was a Thursday birthday for a 32-year-old. Well I’ll get there at 9 and I assume I’ll be late.

J: I think there’s a fresh… A big pet peeve of mine is when people throw a birthday party and people think it’s acceptable to show up over an hour late to the time that they said their birthday party was going to be. And people will be like, “Well that’s crazy. You showed up on time.” I’m like, no, tell me the time it starts. I have done the birthday parties where the birthday girl has shown up two hours after the start time.

C: No.

J: No. I think you’re going to hell.

C: Something about me is I know what it’s like to throw an event and be scared. No one’s going to come and I treat your birthday how I would treat a comedy show where I don’t think it was going to show up. So because I know I’m not a night owl. What I do is I say I have a specific strength and is that I get places on time and I will be fun, early, sober and I will get, if your party’s at 9 p.m., I will be the only one there. You’re going to be like, well anyone I show up and at least I will be there trying to distract you from the fact that maybe nobody comes.

A: And then it’ll pack out. Then you’ll be too busy to hang out because you’ll be talking to everyone.

C: And then I leave.

A: You can slip out.

C: So that’s my MO.

J: That’s a really phenomenal service to provide.

C: Thank you. And I’m like when, especially if you have an, I don’t know, I had a friend who had a 30th birthday party at Goldbar and they had it from nine to 11 and I was with people who were like, Oh we’ll go, we’ll leave around 9:30. I was like, leave around 9:30? That’s most of it. We can’t just leave her. She put up balloons. We can’t just have her in a huge room with balloons at nine waiting for an hour.

J: So I’m sorry. She put up a two-hour window show up at the beginning of the two-hour window.

A: Yes.

C: And also she was going to be, it was one of those things where she had to hit a minimum. So I’m like, we have to get there now and start drinking drinks. So this poor, I mean she-

J: We can say this because this, we’re, this us meeting for the first time. I like you so much for this, this, you just won so many points for me.

C: That’s my strength.

J: You guys like both.

C: This is also say-

A: I get them, Claire gets them. Yeah.

C: And then she stays way later than the-

J: Just thinking about the minimum. That is so important. Do you know what I mean? I went to, my friend had a birthday party at this bar in Greenpoint that I have never been to and probably will never go to again because it was in Greenpoint and far. I go to Greenpoint but it was in GreenPoint.

C: Oh, no, no, no, I understand.

A: Yeah.

J: But when I got there she was like “Make sure you order the drinks through this QR code because that is what goes towards the minimum.” I’m saying to people, I don’t know at that point, if I see someone at the party, I’m like, get your drink on the QR code. We’re hitting Haley’s minimum. We’re hitting,

C: I brought extra friends, I brought five people and I was like, “Order drinks,” because she was at a minimum. But anyway, for this list party, I’ll just say that because I know myself, I know if the party started at nine, we were there at 9:05 because I wasn’t-

A: No. Do you know why we were late to this party?

C: Because we were trying really hard to be late?

A: No. Because I was doing CYSK that night and we were going from the gutter and that show-

C: But still we weren’t after 10 or something.

A: No, it was still pretty early.

C: It was before anything-

A: But it was still much later than we were originally planning to get there.

C: Because you had last-minute, whatever. We wouldn’t have gotten in anyway. It doesn’t f*cking matter. And then the craziest thing about these line places is you get in and they’re like half full and so you’re like, oh, so you’re punishing me just to be mean?

A: Yeah.

C: Yeah.

A: And I can’t stand for that. I understand if it’s a fire code.

J: Fire code.

C: If there’s a fire code, we can’t all be in there and one and one out. But if I get into a club that I have waited to get into and I get in there and it’s dead empty and the vibe is horrible because you’re too busy worried about appearances on the outside,

A: Worry about the inside of your f*cking club, how about?

J: It’s just, I don’t think… It’s insulting to your friends to be like, “I want us to go to a place where the other people are good,” in case we are doing that.

C: Yes. That’s how I feel.

A: That’s how I always feel.

C: If I like you, I could like you at a pizza shop. I mean we go down the Jersey Shore a lot. My parents are at the shore and we go and we have so much fun at this place called Spicy’s. It is a pizza place on the boardwalk during the day.

A: No. It’s not just pizza. They have every cuisine.

C: That’s true.

J: So you can get lo mein.

C: Literally. It’s sushi.

A: No, literally.

C: It’s pizza, it’s cheeseburgers, it’s lobster rolls, it’s fish market. Then they’ll deep fry anything and then at night they just put a boombox in the corner and then they have this dude stand on a chair with a mic bar and he just shouts out exciting stuff. And they play all DJ Earworm remixes of top 40 hits.

A: You can go and be like, hey can you give a shout-out to Claire? And then he’ll be, shout-out to Claire.

C: And he will.

J: That sounds incredible.

A: I love it.

C: Twenty people. And we’re all stuck between the pizza counter and where the bathrooms start and you can dance up on the pizza booth. So just a regular pizza booth and it is the most fun place in the world because you go with your friends.

A: Yes. Well that’s what I’ve always felt about every, I’m sorry if you have a friend group. I understand. Listen, I’m a single person and I’ve quit dating apps. So I’m like, I understand wanting to go to a place where there’s the chance you can catch an eye or maybe there’ll be other cool people there, someone hot or whatever. But if you are like, oh, we just need to be surrounded by a vibe that feels cooler than us. No. We’re cool. Let’s just go somewhere that’s cool.

C: Even if you’re not, then that’s on us. If we haven’t figured out a way to get cool yet, then we don’t deserve cool. Go to Spicy’s.

A: I guess I haven’t run into this so much in New York because I feel like my life has been so surrounded by the comedy scene. But when I lived in L.A. and my friends were always trying to go to this place called Harvard and Stone. My favorite bar in Los Angeles is a bar called Rocco’s Tavern. It is in Studio City. No one goes there. It is such a weird spot. Every single day from 4 to 7 p.m. there are half-off drinks. But instead of giving you, they charge. Okay. So you don’t get-

J: You pay full price for two.

A: Yeah. You pay the price of one drink and they give you two drinks and have, so you’ll get either a giant stein of beer or a Coke glass of cocktail. And I’m just like, why don’t we just go to Rocco’s every day from 4 to 7? Why do we have to stay up late and go to Harvard and Stone and wait in line and everyone’s wearing a button-up and they look like idiots.

C: I have a Rocco’s and Williamsburg. I go to one box-

A: Mugs.

C: Mug’s Ale House.

A: I love mugs.

J: Where the f*ck is that?

C: It’s on North ninth and Bedford. It’s across the street.

A: It’s a perfect bar.

C: It was the most incredible place in the world because nobody ever went there and I used to go and I go, I pray to God that this is a front for something and that they stay empty forever. Because I would go there and there’s not even music normally. And I always like, I know we can get, It’s like-


C: Literally it felt like I was Warren Buffet where I had a bar built in my house just for me or something.

J: Oh, my God.

C: And then they closed down and I said, I guess it wasn’t a front, I guess it was just a bad business. And they’ve reopened and it is a bit more bumping. But I do want to say in honor of Mug’s Ale House, they have great cocktails. It’s a good vibe. And they’re open till 4 a.m. every single day.

A: Incredible.

J: That’s sounds great.

A: There’s a place called The West by my house.

C: That’s my hotspot.

J: My friend works there.

A: I love The West.

C: Which one’s your friend?

J: Richard Perez.

C: Okay. Can you give him characteristics?

J: He’s a barista there.

C: Okay.

J: He’s the funniest comedian in New York City. I’m literally obsessed with him.

A: He’s a comedian?

J: Yeah. Well, yeah.

A: If you showed me a picture, I’d probably know who he is.

J: Yeah. He’s short. He has a center part black hair. He’s probably like 5′ 8.

C: We’ll see pictures.

A: Yeah.

J: Yeah. I’ll show you pictures. He’s literally my favorite person.

A: Oh, my God, I love it there. One time, we have a friend who had a birthday party there because it’s a bar at night too. People always forget. That’s my favorite bar is a bar that you don’t even really necessarily realize is always a bar. And one time we went there for my friend’s birthday, Halloween.

C: We were going to go to Output or something. She wanted to go to some place in Bushwick and do a scene, but it was Halloween and she was like, we can’t last minute get tickets for 30 people on a Halloween night. And she’s like, so what do we do? And we’re like, do we go to The West? And it was-

A: So fun.

C: The only ones there, it was the perfect vibe. They have a movie on the projector and you just get Margaritas and you own the place.

A: And my favorite thing, and I think one of my favorite moments in all of New York is I was talking to a guy at the time and he came and met up with me there and then we went back to my house and then in the morning I was like, can we go get coffee? And he was like, Where’s the coffee shop? And I was like, “It’s the bar!”

J: That’s incredible. Okay. Wait, this is, as I predicted, this episode went by in truly two seconds. But the way I end episodes is planning if you would, our night out together, if you want to have a night out.

C: Oh my God. I think. Okay. I think we go to Mugs.

J: Okay. Perfect.

C: Because it’s right by my house, which I also love. And then it’s near Ashley’s house. They have this drink called the Oaxaca drink. That’s like my favorite cocktail. We would have that. And then I think they have a back room that isn’t open to the public yet. It’s still under construction. But I think we would just say, listen, I’ve got an iPod and a speaker, and then we would all just text whoever we think might be around and we would just have them come and get drinks and dance. Then we would order pizza at the bar. So we would snack and dance to our own playlist all night.

J: This is perfect.

A: That’s a perfect night.

J: And it’s close to your house so you can peel off when you’re ready.

C: Yes.

J: Perfect. Okay wait, we’re doing this.

C: And then maybe even come back maybe. But I sit and Ashley, she goes, it’s still getting even more funner. And I go, okay. I’ll come back.

A: You do that. She’s come back to bars before and I love going out by my house because sometimes, God at my own birthday party this year I left in the middle for half an hour and I went and walked my dog and went back because I was staying later than I wanted to. And I wanted to still be a good mother to bug.

C: You know what else would be perfect about night out is the front bar would still be dead quiet. So if you wanted to have a chat with a friend, you would never have to scream over the music. So you could have a chatting location and a dancing location. Then they have really cute seats outside. So if you wanted fresh air or have a smoke.

J: Wow.

A: You should get married at Mugs.

C: When I was going to do it at Blinky’s, Mugs was going to be my backup and I secretly was like, I hope it rains. So I can have a wedding at Mugs, but I don’t think I can out and out plan a wedding at Mugs.

A: Damn. Well, maybe I will.

C: Maybe I could. My wedding’s at Ponyboy.

J: That’s amazing.

C: But my problem is it doesn’t have an outdoor location, so I worry about the old people getting burnt out, but I don’t care. I feel like it’s pretty, it’ll look good in photos.

A: I think that when old people get tired of a wedding, they peel off and go to bed.

C: They don’t go outside for a cigarette?

J: Yeah. No. The old people just go.

C: But if something happens, Mugs, are you listening? I’m going to have my wedding at Mugs.

J: Perfect.

A: I think you should.

C: Come.

J: Okay. Cool. We’ll see you there. Bye.

A: Bye.

C: Not you guys.

Thank you so much for listening to “Going Out With Jake Cornell.” If you could please go and rate and review us on whatever you’re listening to this on, that would be really gorgeous for me in a huge way, so thank you.

And now, for some credits. “Going Out With Jake Cornell” is recorded in New York City and is produced by Keith Beavers and Katie Brown. The music you’re hearing is by Darbi Cicci. The cover art you’re probably looking at was photographed by M. Cooper and designed by Danielle Grinberg. And a special shout-out to VinePair co-founders Adam Teeter and Josh Malin for making all of this possible.